How to have the Leader Mindset to Overcome Adversity | RBC SVP Michael Hamilton | Episode 153

Scott McCarthy [00:00:00]:
Today on episode one fifty three of the Moving Forward Leadership podcast, we speak to combat veteran and Royal Bank of Canada senior vice president, Michael Hamilton, and he’s gonna tell you how your leadership mindset will determine the fate of your organization. Today, folks, it’s all about having the mindset to overcome adversity. Are you ready for this? Alright. Let’s do it. Welcome to this episode of moving forward leadership. Stick around and learn how to achieve, excel, and become a leader that people willingly follow. Lead don’t boss. And now, here’s the host of our show, chief leadership officer, Scott McCarthy.

Scott McCarthy [00:00:51]:
Yes. Welcome one. Welcome all. It is your chief leadership officer, Scott McCarthy, and welcome to the Moving Forward Leadership podcast where we talk about the three domains of leadership and that is leading yourself so that you can be the best leader possible, leading your team so you can build high performing, high functioning teams, and then finally, leading your organization so you can drive that organizational output upwards. And here, we take twenty years of my military experience and smash it together with leaders such as Michael today and bring you this, the best podcast and leadership going. And it’s so great to have you here. And we got a rock star guest as always lined up for you today. We’re gonna be talking about something so important, and that is mindset and how important mindset is, especially when we are faced with adverse conditions.

Scott McCarthy [00:01:50]:
You see, in leadership, when things are going good, when we’re at the status quo, when we are achieving things on a day to day basis and everything’s just chugging along, life’s good, That’s where you as a leader can kinda sit back, relax, think a bit, plan for the future, deep future. But when we, like, times like now with COVID nineteen around, We face these times. This is where we as leaders have to come out. This is where we as leaders need to shine. This is where we as leaders need to step our game up and not only excel, but basically demolish what’s in front of us, and you have to have the right mindset. And I could not think or find another guess that would be better than Michael Hamilton. And you’re like, Michael Hamilton, he’s a banker. Well, not only is he a banker, he’s actually a former US army officer.

Scott McCarthy [00:03:06]:
You see, Michael was at the battle of the seventy third easting in Iraq, and you’ll hear that he shouldn’t be talking to us today. He shouldn’t be alive. Yet, he and his team overcame that adversity. As well, he is the senior vice president of distribution. He’s responsible for leading RBC insurance sales and the distribution team across Canada. He has over 800 employees that he deals with on day to day basis. So just a small organization that he’s leading. And with everything that’s gone on in the banking industry in the past, He’s seen some adversity.

Scott McCarthy [00:03:59]:
Everything that he’s done in his military career, he’s seen some adversity. So this is who Michael is, and that is a type of guest that I’ve brought forth for you today. So folks, you know what? That’s probably enough for me. So why don’t you sit back, relax, and enjoy my conversation with Michael Hamilton on how you can have the leadership mindset to overcome adversity. Hey, Mike. Welcome to the Moving Forward Leadership Podcast. So great to have you here today.

Michael Hamilton [00:04:41]:
Thanks so much, Scott.

Scott McCarthy [00:04:43]:
So right now, you’re a senior VP with the Royal Bank of Canada, but banking wasn’t always where you spent your time leading. And one of the I would like to go back to, you know, back to where it really started off for you back with the US army. And, you know, what were your leadership experiences like back as an as an officer in the army in in particular? You know, you and I share a little bit of commonality, in that you deployed to Gulf 1, whereas I deployed to Canada or Afghanistan. So a couple couple veterans here, with the combat experience under our belts. So we’ll go back to those days, and I’d love to hear about your leadership experiences and and challenges and lessons from those times.

Michael Hamilton [00:05:30]:
Yeah. No. It’s, that sounds good. I was, I mean, I’ll back it up even a little bit before I had the opportunity to go to Norwich University, which is, what they refer to in The US, one of the three citizen soldier schools. So you have the academies, which are West Point Air Force and Naval Academy, and then you have, Norwich, VMI, and The Citadel, which are the three citizen soldiers. So I had the opportunity to graduate from Norwich, with my bachelor of science, but with really, driving passion to go into the military. And, my uncle who had fought in World War two with the black watch black watch regiment, out of Canada and fought Rommel in tanks, I said, well, if you’re not gonna be in the Canadian military, at least, at at least go into tanking and cavalry operations. So that’s how I made my choice to, when I graduated and, when I went into the military to make, what direction I wanted to go into.

Michael Hamilton [00:06:34]:
And, from there, went to Fort Knox, got my basic training. And through those experiences, a lot of people ask, you know, as you volunteer for different advanced courses as you would know, Scott, a lot of people think, do you plan that out? And, is that something you you wanna continue to do? And the reality is is you kinda cross your fingers and you think, a certain path looks pretty cool. So you just you jump in with both feet, and then you’re talking about leadership capabilities. Going from Norwich University, and I graduate number one in my class, and had the opportunity to be a company commander when I was in Norwich. And from there, I jumped in with both feet, went armored cavalry. I really didn’t have a full understanding what armored cavalry was and all the training and becoming a scout and a team commander going down that path. At the beginning, didn’t know what that meant, but I think, took a little blind faith and, had the opportunity to, jump in with both feet and go through that training. And I think one of the things one of the first instances I often talk about, in my own leadership talks to my teams is the, the the anticipation of adversity versus adversity itself.

Michael Hamilton [00:08:05]:
I’ve talked about, that and what I mean by that is whether you’re a civilian or in the military training development success many people put up their hand in anticipation of the adversity they they’re gonna face just think of the environment we’re in today You know, we’re in COVID nineteen, and they’re and I think this is where true leadership shows up. Are you fearful of what’s ahead of us, or do you look for the opportunity? Do you guide it? Do you logistically look at things and make it better, or do you kinda curl up and hope this just passes you by and you don’t get COVID or whatever, items may or may not happen? In the military, this became very true for me when I went through my specialized training, and we started, with a 62 of us. And as you would know, when you go through specialized training, the numbers dwindle pretty fast, and 18 of us graduated. And a lot of people ask me and they go, oh, there must be something super special about you or that those 18. And I said, no. He says, it’s not that you’re special. It’s you get your you get your head right. And it’s not about physicality at that point.

Michael Hamilton [00:09:26]:
It’s about where’s your head. And the real dropout notion is you have to go through, the composites of whether that’s jumping out of planes, doing land navigation courses, all that kind of stuff. But it’s interesting. The trainers in those days would get us into a compound, and we referred to them as black hats. And the black hats would come and yell at you. And so after getting done a three day training mission, we’re worn out, we’re hungry, we’re tired, we’re beat up, bruised, and all we wanna do is rest. What was interesting was, they came back at us and said, okay. Get your rocks on, and we’re going for another 25 mile rock march.

Michael Hamilton [00:10:14]:
And you just saw the faces. Those that made it to the compound, about half of the guys, at that time made it to the, compound, and had successfully negotiated what we’ll refer to as a land navigation course. It’s a little more than that, but for tends for your for your audience, that’s what it was. And half of them put up their hand and said, I’m out. And they got up. We’re yelling at them. No. You gotta stay, and the choppers are on the outside of the compound.

Michael Hamilton [00:10:46]:
They’re going, let’s go. Get your rocks. You can get in. Anyone you want. And this is the one time that the blackouts were nice to us. They’re going, oh, look at that. You got a chopper. It’s a very different agent stage and back then that there you don’t have people encouraging you.

Michael Hamilton [00:11:02]:
You don’t have a coach going, come on, champ. You can do it. They’re going, no. We want you to quit. Get on that chopper. Go back to base. You’ll get a warm hot meal as soon as you land. And half of those folks jumped on, and, as soon as they’re flying away, the black hat comes in.

Michael Hamilton [00:11:19]:
We rock up, we’re in formation, and he looks at us and goes, what are you doing? Put your stuff down. You guys have four hours. Rest up. And, and we’re gonna still do the march, but you you’ve got some time to get get your bearings. So just in anticipation that you were gonna have to endure some pain for a little bit longer, half fifty percent of the people that made it to the compound gave up and went back. And it was always a lesson to me that and it was all in their head. They just felt in their mind. They just couldn’t overcome it.

Michael Hamilton [00:11:56]:
So it’s, if you will, that was the first and what that led to later on in my career, as you indicated, when I went over to the, Desert Storm, Desert Freedom, Desert Shield is, when I ended up in my first battle. You know, I remember as a young lieutenant, so shifting stories is that came back, to be a real leadership lesson for me because the colonel comes down and says, alright, Hamilton. You’re the, you’re the first platoon going in against the Tawakana Guard, up the Wadi Albatim, which is our locations. I’m sure you’ve heard terms like this in the desert. And, by the way, you’re outnumbered 10 to one. Your BDA, acceptable BDA, is 92%, which means I have a survivability of 8% upon contact. And, oh, by the way, I wanna introduce you to the lieutenant or lieutenant, if you will, that’s going to replace you once you’re killed in battle not if but once. So I always translate that to civilian terms can you imagine in a sports analogy if someone takes their kid to a hockey game and the coach comes to them and says by the way we’re playing the best team in all of Canada this weekend your chances of winning are 8% and oh by the way if you do lose I’m gonna replace all of you So, so if in the anticipation of adversity, I cowered or I crawled, you know, I crawled into the hole and said, I I can’t do this, I had the potential to lose men, lose my soldiers, not gain the confidence to drive forward.

Michael Hamilton [00:13:46]:
And in the end, here we are thirty plus years later, and that battle known as the Battle of seventy three Easting has become known as one of the top 10 greatest tank battles in history, and we’re very proud to have been part of that and the men I served with. But, and, obviously, I successfully negotiated that that, battle. But it’s like each of those processes to get to that point. It’s not a matter of you’re not scared, but you trust in your training, you trust in your leadership, and you trust in your people, and you set the groundwork. You don’t allow the anticipation of what possibly could happen. You have to plan for contingencies, but you don’t let it envelop your overall being.

Scott McCarthy [00:14:30]:
There’s some great stories. Wow. Especially the first one with the training. It brings me actually back to my training. And I remember us being on rock march, and the surge is like, okay. We’re gonna go for a march. And he’s like, you know, here here’s the endpoint, the barracks or whatever we were staying at. So we’re marching.

Scott McCarthy [00:14:47]:
And then and he’s having his little pep talk with us. And, of course, we’re exhausted. It’s about 25, 30 degrees Celsius at the time, engaged down. The bugs are flying. We’re done. And then he’s like, you know what? One thing breaks a team and makes them. He’s like, taking them past the objective when you told them what the objective was. And we just walked by the barracks, and we kept going and going and going some more for about another five kilometers until we got back to the barracks.

Michael Hamilton [00:15:16]:
Jeez. Yeah. That’ll, that’ll do it.

Scott McCarthy [00:15:20]:
Yeah. So often, when I get interviewed on podcast, people ask me, like, you know, what what makes military team so strong? I’m like, it’s because we endure the suck so bad that you end up forming these bonds because everyone has to rely on each other, and that ends up forming the team. Do you end up going through the worst because the training sucks so much. But the reality is the training sucks so much for you to, prevail in times as you talked about with the with the battle. Right? Now I I love your your your talk there and your points about, you know, the adversity and stuff like this and having the right mindset, how does that impact the rest of the team as you as the leader having that mindset? You know, what what were they thinking? Did you go back to your your platoon there and, like, hey. We’re heading in. By the way, it’s 10 to one. It we’re eight percent’s profitability.

Scott McCarthy [00:16:17]:
Or, you know, how did you bring that to them and get them to have the same type of mindset that you had at that time?

Michael Hamilton [00:16:25]:
Yeah. That’s actually, it’s a great question, and not saying I necessarily had the magic answer at the time. I didn’t share the odds, to tell you to tell you the truth. It’s, what I did is I went back because we had trained so well together and, over and I was we had trained together in Germany, and so we had gone to you’ll recognize the term, names Hohenfels and Grafenbier, And, Mike Gunner and myself, we were the only, since something like 1973. He and I were the only thousand point tank since 1973 that actually gotten through Grafenbier tape tank table 12. And so we were pretty good at what we did as a platoon and as individuals. We were a very strong unit, so I played off of that. Going back to our skill sets, what we what we had done and really went back to the disciplines of going through fields of fire.

Michael Hamilton [00:17:28]:
What we can expect and what we can expect to see, but the and, you know, and I, you know, I probably, at this time, I don’t remember my exact words. But, again, something effect of the odds are pitted against us because we’re the number ones in, and we’re the calf. You know? This is what we do. We go find, fix, and hold the enemy until the big guns come up behind us that’s that’s the game and so everyone understands it what was interesting out of it and don’t forget I’m a young I’m a very young man at this time not a huge amount of worldly experience. I’m 21 years old. So everyone thinks, oh, you’re 30, 40. You’ve got some mileage under you to understand some pretty esoteric items. You know? For example, my, my gunner would started to, ask about God.

Michael Hamilton [00:18:20]:
You know? Is there a God? What’s a you know, what’s gonna happen to my family if we die? They some of that conversation started to happen, And what I did was really just lead with confidence and and not ridiculous optimism, but confidence that we can get through this together if we work as a team, if we support each other, and operationally know exactly what we’re doing. And, we practiced and practiced while a lot of other units, you know, weren’t practicing same table drills. As you know, in the middle of the desert, you practice the stuff day in, day out, and a soldier’s biggest nightmare is to wake up to an officer yelling or even the platoon sergeant yelling going, okay. We’re gonna walk through this for the nine hundredth time. Make sure your fields of fire acts. Make sure you’ve got your counter attack ready. What does that look like? What’s the counter defensive position look like? And we went through that head infinitum, and we were trained so that the muscle memory, if you will, was so clear in everyone’s mind that we had already fought the battle probably 500 times before we even got there. Because the reality is, as you know, as soon as, as soon as the, the battle starts, all training goes to crap.

Michael Hamilton [00:19:50]:
Right? It’s it just everything that you were trained for, you know, whether it’s, you know, where the enemy’s coming from, to how it’s set up, to the fields of fire, to the fact that, you know, we’re rolling up, and I end up rolling right into the middle of a minefield. And we’re thinking, oh, before we even knew it, we were in the middle of it. And we’re thinking, what do we do? And we go, well, it hadn’t hurt us up to that point, so keep rolling. And what we became apparent was the the sand was less dense than my tank. So the mines were blowing down, not up. So it gave its confident little more confidence. And then, you know, we’re receiving sniper fryer from a side town to get us reorganized. But the troop knew exactly how we had to move in conjunction with each other, how to sweep, how to call for fire, and, how to bring, you know, in the in my world, in that cavalry world, a mass of, you know, 70 tons and of iron and steel downrange all at once.

Michael Hamilton [00:20:59]:
And that’s what really overwhelmed, the enemy is what we came to learn afterwards. And, you know, I was fortunate enough after all of that, I didn’t lose one person. So when you think of it, you know, I think if you set the mindset from the standpoint of have the confidence, believe in your training, because while it may not turn out exactly how you think, that training’s gonna give you the flexibility to parry and pitch and do different things in the moment that still support the overall strategy of the platoon or company. And that’s what we did we we shifted on the fly and, being in the desert it was interesting as we were cresting a rise it’s the terrain in the desert very strange as you know and you’ll you’ll be on a rise and not even realize it. Well, obviously, the locals know it better than we do, and they had positioned themselves and dug out positions on the depression of a rise. So we’re cresting it, and we’re silhouetted right on top of the rise. The only thing that saved our backside at the time was, a desert haboob, or small, desert sandstorm, if you will, came up and shielded our movement. So they started shortlining all their, weaponry.

Michael Hamilton [00:22:22]:
And as they’re short, you know, basically, shortlining all their, shots, it basically the flashes expose themselves, and we could, fire twice as fast as that that they could. So as soon as they expose themselves and we saw a flash, we took them out, and our rounds, our sable rounds, could penetrate, which we didn’t know at the time, could penetrate three feet of sand before it even hit the tank and still would destroy the vehicle. So it was confidence in the machinery, confidence in the training, and, I think my belief at the time was if I came in and said, guys, the odds are against us, we’re the sacrificial lamb, because that’s basically what we were. That’s what the tab tends to be. You know, find, fix, and hold, and two hours behind you are the massive guns that come and figure one out. That’s to me, that’s not a great message. So, I didn’t I didn’t run with that one. And, to this day, you know, the leadership especially, we stay very close, in close conversations and and discussions, and we talk about that time frame.

Michael Hamilton [00:23:32]:
And there was every every logistical and intelligence report that it shouldn’t have gone the way it went. But it, you know, it worked out. And I go to the flexibility to shift and move in the moment because the training had been so specific and so ground into us day in, day out. And we did it when we didn’t have to do it. You know, I sometimes think of sports athletes, you know, some some of the individuals that, you know, why are they great where that’s a Tiger Woods or, Sydney Crosby? And they go, well, Sydney is the hockey player he is, not because he’s he yes. He has some natural ability, but he’s also at the rink two hours before everyone and two hours after everyone whether it’s game day or not that was kind of where we were in the military we we out practiced we out rehearsed we out trained all our countering or I should say our adjacent units and obviously survived to tell the story.

Scott McCarthy [00:24:36]:
The top is the one least place, Colin Powell said that once, but it doesn’t have to be. Instead, you can find people to talk to, people to run ideas by, people to help you figure out solutions to the problems that you’re facing right now as a leader. And see, I felt one long once, and I decided to start the podcast. And with the podcast, I decided that I needed to help people like you more. So that’s why I started the Pivot Forward Leadership Facebook group. Leadership skills for managers to be leaders, not bosses. You can find it at movingforwardleadership.com/group, and come join us. It’s completely free for you to join us and talk leadership with us day in day out.

Scott McCarthy [00:25:26]:
So check us out again at movingforleadership.com/group. Now back to the show. So many great lessons there. Absolutely love it from, you know, the important of the message, the right message to, to, pass, such as eight percent survival is probably not the best one. But, you know, the importance of visualization, I think my Michael Phelps says, people like, oh, do you envision, you know, crossing he had a sorry. Michael Phelps once got asked, you know, do when you’re sitting there before the race, do you envision you crossing the, finish line? He’s like, no. I’m envisioning every stroke, every breath, every kick, the turn, every aspect of it before, you know, the finish line is nothing in comparison to everything else. And that’s essentially what you’re you’re getting at with the training.

Scott McCarthy [00:26:14]:
And I think this is so important. It’s so important as us as leaders to take that time and to go through these different options, these different possibilities, regardless if you’re in business or if you’re in nonprofit or if you’re in government, to go through all these potential different probabilities, possibilities that can occur. And, like, okay. Well, what happens? What do we do? What’s our plan? And it was once said, you know, planning is a it how does that saying go? Basically, it’s like plan planning is, you know, is required

Michael Hamilton [00:26:47]:
Failed up well, failed to plan, plan to fail.

Scott McCarthy [00:26:50]:
No. It’s, planning is planning is absolutely required but absolutely useless. Something along those lines. Or plans are useless. Planning isn’t is is a requirement, but plans are useless. And, essentially, it’s saying exactly what you said that when you cross that line of departure, the enemy gets to say, and the plan goes out the window. But going through that, giving yourself the baseline and enabling flexibility to shift on the flaw, adjust, I think that’s what us as leaders, we need to continually do, especially in today’s environment, COVID environment. I’m sure now, as a senior VP, in in a large one of the well, if not the largest Bank of Canada, you guys have to been shifting.

Scott McCarthy [00:27:34]:
You have to adjust, especially with this COVID environment. So now this is where I like to go is, like, you’ve learned all these lessons. You’ve been through combat. You’ve been a, you know, troop commander, company commander. You’ve had all this great leadership experience. How does that transition from military life into civilian life for you? What did you take? Did you take it all with you? Did you leave some lessons behind?

Michael Hamilton [00:27:59]:
Yeah. I think it’s, I think a lot comes with you, and I think the, the more senior, the the more senior you get, the better the better you become at implementing the lessons you’ve learned, as a, as a, you know, former military officer. In the beginning, I think the disciplines you learn like, I’d almost term it, early in your civilian career is kinda like going to boot camp. You survive it. Right? You head down. You do what’s required. You know, I my first job out of the military was Merrill Lynch. You know, it was 250 cold calls a day, six days a week, 10,000,000 in assets in eighteen months or you’re fired.

Michael Hamilton [00:28:45]:
That was the routine. And, I have to tell the story. So I started with 36 individuals, all ex military because the CEO at the time had been ex military and he loved military officers. And we came in And, at at the end of eighteen months, out of 36, three of us were left standing. And of the people that resigned, quit, didn’t make it, 15 of them went back into the military. So when you I always say, so when you think the civilian career is easy, think that half of a cohort was more willing to go back into combat than to do financial planning. It’s it’s a crazy concept, but what, what early on it did, it created, an opportunity for me to, you know, understand my flexibility, understand the disciplines you need to become successful. And as I say, almost, robotics, probably the wrong word, but understanding what the training leads to so that you can become successful.

Michael Hamilton [00:29:59]:
Then what happened in my career was I was able to get into roles that I became a builder. Leadership was highly required because changes need to be be made. And the one thing about military folks, I’m generalizing, but I truly believe this is we have a high degree of honor, integrity, discipline, and we’re doing it for the team, the greater good. It’s not about the individual. And a lot of, I think a lot of times, you know, civilian, if you spend your life school’s all about you as an individual, then you then you go and get your graduate degrees or do whatever, and then you go into business, and you’re evaluated as an individual. It tends to be very self serving. The whole reason and as you know this, the reason many of us go into service is because we see something for the greater good. We wanna participate and contribute something to the greater good.

Michael Hamilton [00:30:57]:
And when an organization is able to build upon its community and build through that, I think it just lends itself to do to being that better. Now push the clock ahead thirty years, here I am at RBCM with an organization that’s, very influential, in the markets, the financial markets within the communities, and does a lot and very proud to be part of the organization. But at the same time, allowing us to be quite entrepreneurial to look for opportunities to drive our teams in a different way to really engage our clients and care about that for the greater good of the team, not just and when I say team, that’s both clients, that’s both the organization. We’re giving back, but at the same time building a business. And, it can be it can become very rewarding. And when leading civilian teams, I would say the big difference, the military sometimes rank and file. It’s just get in line, and we’re gonna do this. It can be somewhat hierarchical.

Michael Hamilton [00:32:10]:
And, as you know, when you get more specialized, it becomes less hierarchical and much more flexible. I call it the Gumby effect. Right? You tend to, you know, the more specialized your, your training, the the more, requirements are on you to think through the process, think through the planning. That’s like the civilian world. You have to bring people along with you. You have to be able to, encourage and understand the message, be transparent, but also understand what you’re, to help communicate what those motives are because they’re not a natural, instinct for everyone that’s coming along in the civilian sorry, civilian sector. In the military, you tend to all be not like minded, but you’re there for this for similar reasons. You’ve all gone.

Michael Hamilton [00:33:04]:
You have, whether it’s male, female. You know, we, you know, we have all the discussions about diversity and all of those items. The reality is in the military, I don’t know how many times you actually looked to your platoon or to your unit and how many of each demographic you had. I don’t think I ever did that. Yet I had a very broad mix of demographic. And what translated when I came into my swimming career, I’ve always had a very broad diversity because I go to the best for the business. I go to the best applicable person that can do the best for the team. And I think that’s what the military teaches you.

Michael Hamilton [00:33:49]:
It almost re it removes that, effect that I’m gonna judge you on a as a person, I’m gonna judge you on your leadership, your capability to be part of the team, and your ability to contribute to the overall goal, what we’re trying to achieve. And as difficult as it may be, you may have some shortcomings, you may have some skill breaks. I can fill those in. What I can’t fill in is the want to and that discipline to wanna show up every day and be different and be flexible. And I think in the civilian world, once you create teams that do that, they almost get addicted to that because I my belief is the core function of the human spirit is they wanna make a difference. And when you bring that to the civilian world, people rally around and you do things just like in the military that you exceed your own perceived limitations on a daily basis. And everyone asks about that. You know, we always give, analogies around athletes or military generals and so on and so forth.

Michael Hamilton [00:34:55]:
And everyone doesn’t put themselves in the same context. You know? What a what a day it is when you extend beyond your own perceived limitation. And that’s why we work out. That’s why we set goals. That’s why we do things. And, again, we can run the genie lamp and hope for the best. But the reality is is once you have the training, once you go through that, it’s amazing how consistently you can exceed growth rates. You can exceed client engagement numbers.

Michael Hamilton [00:35:25]:
You can have employee opinion surveys that rally around, a company motivation or a company cry that, allows them to engage at a different level. And that’s what excite I guess that’s what excites me, but I I always go the basis of what the military teaches you, allows you to be that much more effective because it gives you the courage to make decisions despite having all the answers to your point. In order one does and again, whether not to pan on actuaries or risk assessment people and they try to back into it, How is this gonna go, and what are the 12 risks that are associated with it? We have to plan for these things to your point. And the reality is they’re always wrong because it’s a guess. It is always a guess. Not that it’s not needed, Just like in the military is, you know, jumping out of a plane and doing things a certain way, what you can’t you know, those are in perfect conditions. So when I’m in a combat zone and I’m jumping out of a plane, you know, versus 2,800, you know, 2,800 feet, I’m at 10,000 feet, and I got winds or I got rain or I’ve got bad guys on the ground, it changes the situation. You have to react.

Michael Hamilton [00:36:45]:
All that planning gives you is a a map, if you will, to be able to react to the variables in a business situation. And I think some you know, and sometimes businesses that struggle, they view that map as there’s no other way to do it. And we’re seeing this play out in COVID. You know, restaurants are struggling as we know, which is a shame, but there are some restaurants that are thriving. I have a couple of friends that own restaurants, and they’re actually making more money during this time, than they were pre COVID because they adjust they adjusted their scenario. Right? You have to shift on the fly, and that’s what we learned. In the military, shifting doesn’t mean failure. It just means things have changed, and I got to do something different to be successful.

Michael Hamilton [00:37:32]:
And I think, the overall human spirit needs to get better at that, especially in this environment.

Scott McCarthy [00:37:39]:
Wow. So many great nuggets in there. And I love basically, what you’re summing up with is the old term, the OODA loop. Right? The, observe, orient, decide, and act and continuously doing that. And a lot of leaders out there, unfortunately, they get get stuck in that orange slash the side zone, and they can’t really make a salt decision because they’re scared of what the outcome is going to be, and and, therefore, they don’t go into the act to go back to the observe. And that was, this whole that model is brought up by, USAF, Air Force colonel. I forget the name right now off the top of my head. But the moral story is is that you have to be flexible.

Scott McCarthy [00:38:19]:
Plan is, like you said, a map. It’s a road map. It’s not necessarily edged in stone in in law, and you must follow it. And I think that’s the role as us as leaders. We need to observe these changing times, these challenging times, the things that go away from what the plan actually was. We need to, you know, get all the factors. We need to need to make a decision, a timely decision, and that doesn’t necessarily mean that you get all the information possible. Sometimes you can’t.

Scott McCarthy [00:38:51]:
Sometimes you don’t have the time. Sometimes all the information isn’t possible, isn’t available. So I would say the best decision is the one that you can make with the information you got available to you at that time. You get new information, then you got a new decision to make. It’s just that simple. So it’s so much great. And and probably the most powerful thing you talked about there was the the creation of those high performing teams and getting you know, believing in something higher than themselves and setting those goals and and, you know, exceeding limitations because our brains our human brains, as as powerful they are, they’re actually can be quite weak in that. We get comfy.

Scott McCarthy [00:39:26]:
We we we we’re cozy, and now suddenly, you’re like, oh, I gotta go for something higher and take me out of this cozy zone. I don’t like that. But then we realize once we get there, oh, we can do that. And then this new height is actually becomes our cozy zone, our comfy zone, and we need to push even beyond that. So so many great lessons in there, Mike. As we wind in the podcast here, I do got a couple last questions for you. The first being a question I ask all the guests here at Moving Forward Leadership, and that’s according to you, Michael Hamilton, what makes a great leader?

Michael Hamilton [00:40:00]:
At the end of the day, I think a great leader truly cares about people, wants to, bring people along and wants to lead and wants to lead from the front, meaning be the example by which you dictate or define, for people to contribute, contribute success and contribute their, their abilities to the overall team values. So for what that’s worth.

Scott McCarthy [00:40:31]:
Solid answer. Solid answer. And follow-up question is, how can people get in touch with you? How can they find you? How can they follow you? Obviously, you’re a senior VP there at RBC, but, if there’s anything that you feel like pitching, feel free. It’s all but you right now.

Michael Hamilton [00:40:45]:
Oh, oh, thank you. It’s, so, yeah, I run the, the RBC insurance side of the house. So, again, it’s, from a distribution standpoint. If they wanna contact me, I’m on LinkedIn and, or you my email, mike.a.hamilton@rbc.com. And I have a phenomenal team across all of Canada, And, you know, it’s, we are a multiline insurance company as well as wealth manager that, that really set the stage for where we’re going, into the future in Canada and really, successfully negotiated our way through COVID. So it’s, it’s truly a pleasure to be part of an organization and that an organization that’s acceptable or accepted, great leaders into its organization across the board and have continued to develop them on an ongoing basis.

Scott McCarthy [00:41:48]:
Awesome. And for you to listen, it’s easy as always. Go to the show notes at movingforwardleadership.com/15315three, and the links from the show notes. Mike, damn, man. Thank you so much for coming on, taking time out of your busy schedule, and, talking about all these great stories and great lessons here. It’s been absolutely fantastic.

Michael Hamilton [00:42:08]:
Thanks so much, Scott. Really enjoyed it.

Scott McCarthy [00:42:17]:
Take care. Alright. That’s all I got for you fine folks today. I hope you enjoyed the show. I hope you enjoyed the interview and most importantly, I hope you got something out of it. And if you did, remember, r squared, s squared, right? Right and review the show so that it gets a little bit noticed a bit more but most importantly, I can help more people because that’s what I’m here for, that’s what my guests are here for is to help more people become better leaders and not being bosses, right? So remember that, r squared, rate in view. S, share the show. Share this show with someone who you think can relate to the podcast as a whole and today’s topic.

Scott McCarthy [00:43:00]:
And then finally, subscribe. Subscribe so that you never miss another episode and you can do that via your podcast playing app of choice through movingforwardleadership.com forward slash subscribe. That’s it for today ladies and gentlemen. And as always, stop bossing and start leading. Take care now.