Lead a Hybrid Team | Colin Ellis | Episode 206

Scott McCarthy [00:00:01]:
Today in episode two zero six of the peak performance leadership podcast, we’re bringing back guest, Colin Ellis, and he’s gonna be talking to you about how you can lead a hybrid team. That’s right, folks. It’s all about embracing work and home today. Are you ready for this? Alright. Let’s do it. Welcome one. Welcome all to the Peak Performance Leadership Podcast, a weekly podcast series dedicated to helping you hit peak performance across the three domains of leadership. Those being leading yourself, leading your team, and leading your organization.

Scott McCarthy [00:00:43]:
This podcast couples my twenty years of military experience as a senior Canadian army officer with world class guests, bringing you the most complete podcast of leadership going. And for more, feel free to check out our website at movingforwardleadership.com. And with that, let’s get to the show. Yes. Welcome one. Welcome all to the peak performance leadership podcast. It is your chief leadership officer, Scott McCarthy, and it’s so great to have you here through this show where we’re all about helping you become the best leader possible across those three domains become the complete leader. Right? And today we’re gonna be talking about hybrid teams and how you can lead hybrid teams.

Scott McCarthy [00:01:39]:
Colin Ellis, this is his third yes. That’s right. Third episode to the podcast. And if you wanna check out his first two episodes, they’re episode one o or one zero nine and one seventy seven, and you can grab them by going to movingforwardleadership.com/109 or one seven seven respectively. Before we dive into today’s episode, I do got a announcement to make, and that is if you go to the website movingforwardleadership.com, and right at the top, you’re gonna see a new button, and that says leader growth mastermind. That’s right. We are getting ready to launch the leader growth mastermind. So if you’re ready to up your leadership skills, if you’re tired of feeling alone, dealing with imposter syndrome, not having anyone to bounce ideas off of, or maybe you’re need some new skills, this is going to be the place for you.

Scott McCarthy [00:02:41]:
It’s gonna be a safe place where you can show up and really, you know, be vulnerable, tell people what’s going on, seek advice, not be afraid of anything going back and going against you at work or, you know, even as far as trying to figure what the hell is going on with your boss if they’re just being atrocious. Right? So, again, moving forward leadership.com, and there’s a button right at the top that says leader growth mastermind. Click that. It’ll tell you all about it. You click on our button and you submit your information via a form that’s built into the website there, and we’ll get back to you. Now disclaimer, space is limited. Okay? So it’s not going to be, oh, I just sign up and I’m in right away. No.

Scott McCarthy [00:03:31]:
But rather, we’ll be going through application process, making sure you’re right fit, as well as making sure we have enough space to make sure we deliver the best product possible based on the number of people there. So we wanna get in because we go through the applications as they come in. Again, check that out, leader growth mastermind at movingforwardleadership.com, and be ready to level up your game because that’s what this is going to be all about. I’m so excited to launch this product for you all, and I can’t wait to hear, you know, all the great wins that are gonna be coming out of leaders there who are taking part. Alright. Movingforwardleadership.com/mastermind. Okay. Let’s talk a bit about Colin, and let’s talk about today’s episode, shall we? Calling again third time on the show.

Scott McCarthy [00:04:24]:
He’s written, as many books all around normally culture, but, today this does take a little bit of culture theme, but rather we’re discussing hybrid workforce. Why? Because it’s here to stay. With, the way we’ve gone through this, coronavirus pandemic, the COVID nineteen pandemic. People are enjoying that, you know, work life balance that working from home gives them as well as some people enjoy that mix of working in the office still. So we’re seeing more and more with organizations of going with a more of a hybrid mix. I eat some people working at home, some people working in the office, some people doing a mix of both to everyone everywhere. And this is it. This is the life we’re in.

Scott McCarthy [00:05:09]:
And as leader, this poses new challenges for us. Why? Because how the heck are we supposed to lead people that some are here and some aren’t, etcetera. And that’s what we’re talking about today. And actually, we go into how and why a hybrid workforce actually enables peak performance and how work is something we do, but not where we are. A leaders can create a culture around peak performance in the hybrid environment, how to develop a hybrid work plan, and so much more. You guys are gonna love Colin. Like, there’s a reason why he is a three peat guest at this podcast. If you haven’t listened to any of their episodes, you’re gonna find out why.

Scott McCarthy [00:05:51]:
We have an absolute ball. But more importantly, he has so much great actual items for you. So if you want to check out today’s show notes, you can do so by going to movingforwardleadership.com/20620six, and all the links are there and all the information around Colin is there in today’s episode. Alright. I think I’ve talked enough. So why don’t you sit back, relax, and enjoy my conversation with Colin Ellis all about how to lead a hybrid team. Colin Ellis for the third time. Oh, welcome to the Peak Performance Leadership Podcast, buddy.

Simi Rayat [00:06:52]:
Your listeners will be like, really? This dude again with that ax, accent? What’s he talking about this time?

Scott McCarthy [00:07:00]:
Well, okay. So first off, for the listener out there, if this is their first time hearing Colin on the show, it’s because you haven’t listened that long. So you need to check out episodes one zero nine and one seventy seven, and you can do that easy by going to movingforwardleadership.com forward slash episode number, I e one zero nine or one seven seven. Because that’s Colin’s first two appearances on show. First one with culture fix and then the second one with culture hacks. And now we’re here talking about hybrid work you know, hybrid workplace. But, man, it’s so great. You actually tied a couple two other people for the guest who’s been on the show the most.

Scott McCarthy [00:07:40]:
So congratulations.

Simi Rayat [00:07:42]:
Great. Thank you. I’ll write another book, the start of this year, and maybe I can get to, you know, the the the top by the end of this year. I’m only doing it for that. I’m not doing it to add value to the, you know, kind of my followers. I’m I’m I’m just doing it for you.

Scott McCarthy [00:07:56]:
You’re just trying to get on the show. You’re just trying to get on my show. Alright, buddy. Alright. Let let’s get to the good let’s get to the good. So we’re talking about hybrid workplaces and, you know, making a, you know, peak performing teams with the hybrid, you know, setting now. Obvious, I don’t need to go into the why hybrid is, you know, come to be, I e COVID nineteen, you know, was huge catalyst for that. And I would argue to say that we kinda saw a little bit of that sneaking up, and I think COVID just kinda, you know, accelerated that process.

Scott McCarthy [00:08:32]:
Wouldn’t you agree?

Simi Rayat [00:08:33]:
Yeah. I I think it totally accelerated the process. I think there are some organizations, Scott, who’ve been kinda holding hybrid work back and blaming technology and all kinds of other factors when really what we’re talking about is is behavior Because people haven’t grown up with that way of working, they were naturally kind of ambivalent towards it. And so I think, COVID COVID definitely accelerated it probably faster than it would ever have happened. You know? I I someone asked me this morning how long do you think it would have taken? I was like, anywhere between five and ten years to get to the level that we are now, and, yeah, COVID very much, forced it on people. And and and very quickly, people had to be like, okay. So how do we maintain peak performance in a hybrid environment?

Scott McCarthy [00:09:21]:
Right. And that is always the number one argument that I hear right away when we talk about hybrid work you know, hybrid workplaces, hybrid, hybrid organizations, companies, whatever is, oh, performance drops. I would argue, for me personally, a hybrid structure is like, I actually am at peak when I work in that way. So from your perspective, you know, what’s the good solid counterargument to that argument of, oh, peak or performance drops as soon as we go into that hybrid state?

Simi Rayat [00:09:54]:
Yeah. I was working hybrid in 02/2001, Scott. That’s how long ago I was hybrid. And the and the reason that it worked is that as individuals, we knew how to behave. We had good discipline. We were motivated, and we had a manager who assumed trust. We didn’t have to earn trust. He didn’t doubt our word.

Simi Rayat [00:10:15]:
He set expectations in exactly the right way, Scott. He talked to us as a team about what we needed to achieve by the end of the week, and then he very much put it on us to say, well, where where do you guys believe you need to be in order to get this done? Now at that time, we were scattered all over The UK. And and sometimes we said, hey. It would be great if we could be together, and we would find a convenient client site to meet at. We had rooms at different sites. Or else we said, okay. Well, you know, we’ll work from a particular office that was close to us or we would work at home. And we we had the choice to be able to do that, but the manager was a leader in every sense of the word.

Simi Rayat [00:10:55]:
So we set expectations in the right way, and he set expectations around the outputs we needed to deliver or the outcomes that we were expected to deliver. And and there was nothing about, you know, where he expected us to work unless we had to be on the client’s side. And and so the success of hybrid is really an indication of how good your leadership is. And so when I’ve, you know, I’ve spoken to organizations, particularly at the start of the pandemic, and they were like, oh, we don’t think it’s as productive. I’m like, yeah. Well, that’s kind of a reflection on you and the way that you lead your teams rather than the people who are working for you in the hybrid environment. At which point, they’re like, oh, yeah. We can totally make hybrid work.

Simi Rayat [00:11:36]:
I was like, yeah. I thought so.

Scott McCarthy [00:11:38]:
Wow. What a shot. Right? Right to the heart. Oh, man. That’s I I love I love how you preference preface that whole beginning. Right? You know, it’s like a reflection of you as the leader. It’s, you know, how you manage trust was a huge theme that came out where you’re talking about right there and then. And and, ultimately, like, a lot of things that you talked about, to me, it didn’t seem any different than, you know, how I work and how I lead in the workplace.

Scott McCarthy [00:12:11]:
It’s just the location’s different.

Simi Rayat [00:12:14]:
Yeah. That’s right. You know, work work is not a place that you go to. It’s something that you do either on your own or with a group of people to achieve a set of, to deliver a set of outputs or achieve a set of outcomes, Scott. But what we’ve done over the last hundred years is associate work with a building. And so it’s it this is the mindset that senior managers particularly have to get themselves out of. The other thing that I would mention here for all managers who are on the call going, hey. It’s not just about us.

Simi Rayat [00:12:48]:
It’s like, no. It’s not. Because employees also have the responsibility to be disciplined about the way that they use their time. Because it only sometimes it only takes one bad apple to spoil a fruit bowl. Scott, so what you wanna do is make sure as a team that you’re disciplined, you’re motivated, you’re kinda behaving professionally professionally at all times. You know? And and they’re the kinds of things where hybrid working works when you’ve got managers who know how to lead and employees who know how to be disciplined and productive and get the job done. And at that point, what you have is a real fluid agreement on what do we need to get done, which is then less about the where it needs to happen.

Scott McCarthy [00:13:34]:
Oh, I love it. I love that quote. Work is what we do. Basically, work is not is what we do, not where we are, if I could sum it up pretty quickly there. Now one of the things that so to back up, right, preface, you you know this. The long time listeners know this. You know, by day, I’m still serving in the Canadian army as a senior Canadian army officer. Right? And, we, you know, we were affected with the pandemic just as much.

Scott McCarthy [00:14:01]:
I I’ve been working hybrid for a while. Now we’re gone back to predominantly in the office. Our our our senior officer said, nope. We’re all going into the office again, which is cool. I don’t have any issues with that, but I enjoy the flexibility being able to work from home every now and then. I give that to my team too because, you know, life happens. Right? You know, you get a delivery, and delivery time is like, yeah. We’ll be there between eight and five.

Scott McCarthy [00:14:23]:
I’m like, okay. Thanks, guys. Right? But now we have all the tools and as well, we have the, I I would say, mindset to enable people to work from home and, you know, wait for that delivery truck to show up at, you know, 04:45. But the one thing I keep hearing, especially on our end, is something in your lane, which you’ve been, you know, driving with your career as of late, and that’s culture. And, like, oh, our culture takes a hit. Our culture doesn’t get established as well. Our culture this and our culture that and negative connotations. So I would love to get your thoughts on how in a hybrid environment we can establish down that culture around, you know, being a Titan team, being that peak performing team in organizations so that leaders can really go after and, like, you know, leverage what I would say is an advantage today and not a disadvantage.

Simi Rayat [00:15:17]:
Yeah. It’s a it’s a massive advantage now more than ever, Scott. You know, another thing that we’ve been hearing a lot about recently, you know, for for listeners of the podcast or recording this at the start of, of the year is the great resignation. And and the great resignation is people who’ve been at home, who’ve, you know, given some thought, had time to think about their careers, and have decided to move on. The thing that they’re looking for, a great cultures where that they can really live out their purpose. And the organizations that thrived at the beginning of the pandemic were those that recognized, hey. The world of work has changed, which means that how we do work needs to change as well. And so I worked with a lot of organizations, particularly in the first probably nine months who are like, dude, things have changed.

Simi Rayat [00:16:05]:
We we need to do, like, a a workshop to to redefine the way that we work. Because the behaviors that we needed to see, particularly early on, were things like courage and discipline and motivation and empathy and compassion, because, you know, of the way that the virus took hold. The principles of collaboration, they also changed because it was about, well, how do we leverage technology? What we don’t want and a lot of organizations just rolled out or implemented Microsoft Teams or implemented Zoom without really talking about, well, how should we use it? How do we get the the best from it? So so, you know, kind of when when you’re setting yourself up to to work in a hybrid environment, you have to remember that in order to retain that sense of belonging, in order for people to take responsibility, you have to redefine how you’re gonna work. And so, you know, I’ve been encouraging people, not just because it’s my business, you understand. But but I’ve been encouraging people, you know, do whatever you need to do to work with your team to redefine kind of the how of culture. Because once you redefine that, then that creates the foundation for hybrid work to occur in a in a productive way. So, you know, get to know each other, you know, those personalities, and make sure you can communicate with each other. Make sure there’s a refreshed vision.

Simi Rayat [00:17:19]:
You understand the values, how that plays out in practice. What are those behaviors and those principles about the how how you work together? And then how are you making time for new ideas? So those six pillars of culture are crucially important, and they’re different in a hybrid world than they were in the office world. And if you don’t take time to agree how you’re gonna do it, then ultimately, you’ll lose that sense of belonging, Scott.

Scott McCarthy [00:17:44]:
Yeah. Don’t don’t rush into it. Right? That’s what I’m hearing from you. Actually, take time to, you know, think through it. You know, effectively, even plan how you’re gonna operate with it. Now that being said, obviously, a lot of companies, a lot of organizations just got thrown into the mix, but but that’s where you kinda have to backpedal and, you know, build the plane as you fly it per se and realize, hey. Like, hey, guys. There will be growing pains.

Scott McCarthy [00:18:08]:
We will mess some things up, but, you know, bear with us. We’ll all get through this, and we’re gonna learn. And and you know what? We’re gonna come out better on the other end for it.

Simi Rayat [00:18:19]:
Yeah. The the the big Indian tech companies, what was really interesting, Scott, around about the middle of last year, the big Indian tech companies said to their workforce, going forward, between 2030% of you will be working hybrid. And they were like, oh, cool. Cool. That’s great. And then they called everybody back to the office, and everyone was like, oh, hang on a minute. You said 20% to 30% would be hybrid. And they were like, yeah.

Simi Rayat [00:18:43]:
And that’s still gonna happen. However, what we need to do is we need to bring you guys back so we can figure this out with you such that we can design a hybrid working approach and culture that’s fit for purpose. You know, at the time, I was asked to comment on that saying, oh, aren’t they just backtracking? I’m like, well, no. Because that’s the right approach. You wanna co design and co build it with your staff such that people feel a connection to it. So when you do actually go and implement a hybrid approach, there’s fairness, equity, but there’s also been engagement around it so people know what’s expected of them. And and I think what we’ve got at the minute is very black and white. People are like, oh, we were working hybrid when we weren’t really Hybrid really is a choice.

Simi Rayat [00:19:26]:
Most people were working remotely because our government forced us to, right, because of the pandemic. So most people were working remote, and then organization said, right. We’re we’re working this way for now, but now you’ve all gotta come back. And it’s like, okay. Well well, what if we made that work, that hybrid thing? So we’re gonna do that? Yeah. No. That’s not the way we do things. And that’s then forcing people to be like, actually, I really enjoyed that flexibility, and I wanna work for an organization that provides that and gives me a good culture at the same time.

Scott McCarthy [00:20:00]:
No. That’s awesome. Actually, you know, when you first said that story right away, when you said, oh, they brought them all back, I was like, oh, here we go. You know, expecting a negative story, but, actually, it’s a super positive example of how to do things right. You involve the team. You involve the employees. You involve everyone that’s, you know, that’s affected with this change to figure out, okay. What is the best way moving forward? How will we go about implementing all these changes? How, you know, how you know, what do you need? What do you want out of this, you know, new system that we’re implementing? So I literally, the last quest the next question I was thinking before you started while you were answering that one was, you know, what is the best way to implement or to develop a hybrid work plan? But you go ahead and answer it like you read my mind.

Scott McCarthy [00:20:48]:
Get out of my mind. Call them. Get out of my mind.

Simi Rayat [00:20:51]:
That’s what happens when you’re on the show three times. I already know the question you’re gonna ask

Scott McCarthy [00:20:54]:
me before you ask me.

Simi Rayat [00:20:55]:
I think the other thing to add to that, Scott, I mean and the best way to implement it. So to I suppose to add to that is is for organizations to really give some thought about who’s eligible for hybrid work and who’s not. You know, I joked a lot last year that hybrid working is the new office privilege. There are many organizations, and, of course, you’re working for one yourself, where for some people, they’re just not able to work in a hybrid way. You know, I work a lot with, like, government agencies. They have people out cutting the grass. They have people out mending electricity poles. Those guys can’t work hybrid.

Simi Rayat [00:21:28]:
So what’s the communication mechanism? Who’s eligible? Who’s not? The the example I use in the book is airline pilots and this distinction between flexibility and hybrid. Flexible work is about me being able to work hours such that I can kind of manage my appointment to my family. So I everyone should have flexible working. Right? So if I need to go to a doctor’s appointment, I can do that. But a pilot can only ever fly a plane from the cockpit. And so they can never work in a hybrid way. Right? Never work in a hybrid way. So, you know, what’s the communication look like? You know, what you don’t wanna do is create you know, and our world is full of divisions, and we seem to be creating more and more of them as we go, Scott.

Simi Rayat [00:22:08]:
And what you don’t want is this hybrid versus nonhybrid workforce. You still want one workforce with one culture, but the conditions are different as they always have been for indoor and outdoor work. And, yeah, outdoor work, you know, outdoor workers make up 80% of our working population. So, you know, hybrid work is a bit of a privilege, so it’s important that organizations not only just, you know, kind of, decide who’s eligible for it, but then communicate it in a way that doesn’t create division.

Scott McCarthy [00:22:40]:
Yeah. It makes absolute sense. Right? And, because, like you said, there are some jobs that just can’t be done in a hybrid. You know? My job, there’s lots of aspects of the jobs. You know, a lot I have people who work for me right now that it’s literally impossible for them to do their job hybrid. You know? They’re they’re maintenance guys. They turn wrenches on trucks and vehicles and stuff. Like, you can’t do

Simi Rayat [00:23:02]:
that in

Scott McCarthy [00:23:02]:
a hybrid environment. Right? So so we so my team, we are a bit of mixed. Right? Because we do have some people who can do their work from a hybrid standpoint, and then we have the other ones that can. Now I I hear what you’re saying is, you know, it’s best to keep the the team and the organization in one camp per se. But if you’re kinda forced to have, you know, two camps, two different groups of people, how do we keep that synergy of culture, organizational alignment, when we have some people who are constantly in the work and other people who are in and out?

Simi Rayat [00:23:35]:
Yeah. So it’s about being deliberate about how you bring stuff together, Scott. There’s some work that’s always better done and always will be done, better done face to face. You know, that all the research shows that. And every survey that’s been commissioned over the last two years where they’ve asked employees about what’s their preferred working arrangement, it’s usually two and three or three and two, two days in the office, three days at home or the other way around. So organizations need to be deliberate about how they mix people. They need to be deliberate about those social interactions, those social and emotional connections are absolutely critical to the maintenance and the positive evolution of culture. You’ve got a lot of people who are saying, oh, it’s hard to do, you know, kind of when we can’t be in the same space as each other.

Simi Rayat [00:24:22]:
It’s like, well, it’s harder to do. Well, that still doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do it. You should do it. And you keep people anchored to the culture, not where they’re able to work. And so those opportunities to share stories, those opportunities to develop together on those key skills that you need in order to work for whichever organization you’re working for, They’re the things that bond us, not where you get to actually physically do your work.

Scott McCarthy [00:24:49]:
Makes absolute sense, my friend. Makes absolute sense. So we talked about, you know, how it actually enables peak performance, working hybrid. We we discussed, you know, work is something we do, not what we are. We talked about how to create a culture of peak performance in the environment and how to develop that plan to implement and how to keep now synergy while we’re having a bit of a split organization. What are some of the, you know, the mistakes you see leaders out there making in their organizations when it comes to a hybrid workplace so that the leader who’s listening to this show can go, I’m not gonna do that.

Simi Rayat [00:25:30]:
I think the biggest one that I’ve seen, Scott, over the last probably over the last twelve months is organizations that assume that managers have the skills to lead hybrid teams. More often than not, what happens and I’ve been on the receiving end of this myself, I’m pretty sure you will have, is organizations like to buy off the shelf development programs that don’t really provide the skills that I need to manage within the context that I’m working in. And so, you know, organize now more than ever, organizations should be turning to providers to create tailored solutions that give their managers the skills based on where the organization wants to take their culture. More often than not, people are promoted into managerial positions because of their length of tenure or because of their technical expertise. And often, it’s less about the kind of emotional responses and and and how they treat people. So these are the gaps that we need to fill in because when you look at, you know, how to work make hybrid work productive, it is skills like expectation setting. It’s skills like courageous conversations. It’s it’s skills like communication, which is a skill in itself, which then leads to empathy.

Simi Rayat [00:26:43]:
You know? And and there was a report done last year is that more more Gen zed employees would choose an organization that has a culture of empathy over anything else. So that ability to feel into another person. And for too long, organizations have just bought kind of standard stuff, but organizations aren’t standard, and employees aren’t standard in the way that they work. And so for me, the biggest gap in moving to a hybrid working environment is making sure that managers have got what we call the soft skills or the emotional skills to be able to set direction, hold people to their promises, and to ensure that people are able to use their time as productive productively as they possibly can in an environment where it’s safe to share, be vulnerable, and where compassion is key. And for me, that’s still the gap that needs to be filled.

Scott McCarthy [00:27:33]:
Absolutely. And I will tell you, there’s no better way to do that than sitting down with someone who’s got a boatload of experience in doing such a thing and being mentored and coached by them, which means it’s a great time for me to stay. You know, I do offer coaching, you know, platforms and programs for, the list you to listen right there. Just like Colin said, you know, it’s not this off the shelf box thing. It’s actually one on one with me, and we will go over, you know, your struggles, your pitfalls, where you want to work on, not necessarily what I think you need. So, Colin, thanks for lining up that, that plug right there for me.

Simi Rayat [00:28:09]:
Mate, I just threw that up in the air, and you completely slammed out that.

Scott McCarthy [00:28:13]:
Which is funny because last time you’re on, you set me up for me announcing my podcasting course, which is another area. So here we go again.

Simi Rayat [00:28:22]:
So, basically, you’re inviting me back so I can help you with sales pitches. I’m loving it. Made. Absolutely. Here with this.

Scott McCarthy [00:28:30]:
We’ll we’ll talk we’ll talk about, you know, a stipend for you later, off offline. Alright. I’m sure the I’m sure the I can hear the listeners’ eyeballs roll right now. Eyeballs roll right now. Anyway, now let’s see. Let’s get let’s get back to seriousness. But, I I I truly do believe what you just talked about and what I said, though. Right? In that, so many leaders out there just, you know, to get promoted, and I we see I’m sure you see it too because you’re a consultant.

Scott McCarthy [00:28:59]:
You’re a coach. You you do exact same thing as I do in that you see salespeople, for example, just get promoted. Why? Because they’re good at sales, and now they’re becoming the sales manager, but they lack all those soft skills. Mhmm. They lack the ability to lead and inspire and motivate their team, and they’re just like, why are you not doing what you need to do? You know, Do this, and this is what’s gonna get you to say. And they kinda, like, go hard on their people when they realize, you know, like, they can’t recognize that that’s not how it’s gonna work for this specific individual. That’s not what they react, you know, and how what they really jive with. So

Simi Rayat [00:29:36]:
Yeah. And and that’s a great example of, you know, kind of empathy in action. Empathy in action is I build a relationship with Scott. I understand Scott. I know how to communicate to him to get the best out of him. I know I can spot when he’s not able to be the best version of himself. I’m gonna ask him if he’s okay. If he’s unwell, I’m gonna cut in some slack.

Simi Rayat [00:29:56]:
I know that I need to push him just a little bit to get into peak performance, because, you know, as humans, we all need a little bit of a push every now and again. And and, you know, I’m gonna celebrate his successes and say, isn’t Scott awesome and talk about the great work. And that for me is empathy, and and and a manager’s job is to inspire and motivate their team and have just enough technical knowledge to be able to ask the right questions, to to make decisions, and to keep things moving. And that ultimately is what a great manager or and then a leader looks like. But as we both know, leadership is a choice. Just because you’re on a senior leadership team doesn’t make you a leader. You’re still a manager until you become a role model for others.

Scott McCarthy [00:30:39]:
Oh, nice way to finish that one up. That’s a oh, wow. That’s a nugget and a half right there. I love it. Calm, buddy. This is great. I do wanna hit one more thing before we start wrapping up, and we’re gonna, you know, basically, you know, do a little, you know, quick tangent, chat. And for the leaders out there, you know, we talked about how leading the team and our culture in a hybrid environment, stuff like this.

Scott McCarthy [00:31:06]:
But you you mentioned a word that spiked my interest, and that it was technical. And, you know, there’s so much technology out there. We saw the explosion when the pandemic like, I I bite I kick myself constantly as being, you know, an investor and not realizing that Zoom stock was going to explode come, you know, March, April ’20 ’20. Now a lot of leaders out there are like, oh, what tools do I use? You know? From a tech side, like, what tools do I use? We have Teams. We have Zoom. We have this. We have that. There’s Webex, blah blah blah blah blah.

Scott McCarthy [00:31:39]:
You know, so what’s your best advice for the leader out there who’s getting overrun? Like, I don’t have time to deal with all this technology crap, but at the same time, I need it to connect with my team members. What’s your best advice for them out there?

Simi Rayat [00:31:54]:
Yeah. So pick a tool and then go on a training course to learn how to use it, and then use it as it was intended and figure out how you can better use it going forward. Most organizations, most teams, Scott, they implemented a tool, never never got trained how to use it, are using about 10%, fifteen % of its functionality, and then moan about when it doesn’t work. I you know, when I spoke at an IT conference for Cisco last year, and I and I talked about there’ll there’ll be a real desire to push as much tech out as as possible. And you’ve gotta really think about what value is this adding to the culture of the organization, what value is this adding to team members. You know, me and my team is there’s only three of us, but we’ve been working hybrid for, you know, for six years. We use Trello to manage our tasks. We use Google Meet to do our video call, and we use Drive for our file storage.

Simi Rayat [00:32:49]:
And we we know what happens and where it happens. And then we’ve got Slack for communication. We’ve agreed how we’ll use everything. That’s part of our culture. And we all got trained how to use these tools really, really well. I think when you don’t have the knowledge of how to use them well and you only end up using part of the functionality, it becomes more painful. It becomes more difficult, Scott. And and at that point, you start to blame the mirror and saying, actually, is there anything that I can do to get to understand this tool better such that it can add value to me and my team?

Scott McCarthy [00:33:25]:
You know, this may sound crazy, but one of the most useful courses I’ve ever done in my career and I’ve been through a lot of courses in training. I’m in the army for god’s sakes. We have a course for everything. We really do. But one of the most useful courses in my career was how to use Outlook. Right? Like, how to use Microsoft Outlook. And it literally and I was talking to actually talking to one of the, reps for the company that does provides us that training. And I told him I said that literally, that one course, one day of training has completely revamped how I run my day at work Yep.

Scott McCarthy [00:34:09]:
And how I operate to the point where I’m actually hell lot more effective than, you know, prior to that day on that course. And it’s so true what you said. So many core companies, organizations out there is like, oh, tool, dump it into the organization and go, alright. Here you go. Go use this. And everyone’s like, what? You know, what do we do? What do we do? And that very much happened with us with Microsoft Teams when the pandemic kicked in. You know, it got pushed onto us like, here, use this. This will enable video conferencing, blah blah blah.

Scott McCarthy [00:34:40]:
And, like, well, there’s so much more. So, of course, myself and and one and two other guys at work really dug into it and bit into it. We ended up saying, you know what? We’re gonna run our own training. And that’s what we did. We did our own ad hoc informal training into our organization to increase the user awareness, their ability to actually properly use the tool, how we can actually use it. And we were running that for, I would say, six weeks, weekly sessions for six weeks and trying to get as many people through it as possible. Why? So that they understand how the tool operates and how they can incorporate into their daily work and make the most use of it. Because if you just go and take it, you’re only gonna use 10% much like what I was doing with Outlook.

Simi Rayat [00:35:25]:
That’s so true. I used to get asked, what course when I was interviewed, particularly early on in my working for myself, what course should people go on? I always said Outlook. Most people will moan about the number of emails they get, and none of them have got a clue how to use the tools. Most people say, oh, I’ve got so many meetings. I’m like, well, just change the time of them to twenty minutes or forty minutes in Outlook. Like, there’s so many easy things that people could do to be more productive. You know, an email comes in, you note the task, you add it to the task, you archive the email. I have inbox zero, Scott, and it’s not that I don’t get a lot of emails.

Simi Rayat [00:36:00]:
It’s just that I know how to manage my inbox because I’ve trained myself on how to use the tools. You know? And and and and there’s there’s so much productivity people could gain just by doing that.

Scott McCarthy [00:36:12]:
Right. And that now enables you, enables your team. Yeah. If you push it right across your whole organization, enables your whole organization to be more effective, be more productive. Oh, guess what? That’s how we achieve peak performance by not getting bogged down by the thousand emails, but actually going after the tasks and such things that are incorporated into them. Right? So Yeah. Calling my friend. It’s been a slice, sir.

Scott McCarthy [00:36:39]:
It’s been awesome.

Simi Rayat [00:36:40]:
Thank you, Scott.

Scott McCarthy [00:36:41]:
Pleasure to have you on back on. Not the first rodeo for you, so we’re gonna wrap up. One final question before you get your shameless plug, of course. You know, according to you, Colin Ellis, what makes a great leader?

Simi Rayat [00:36:56]:
What makes a great leader is creating a safe environment to, for other people to do great work.

Scott McCarthy [00:37:03]:
Short, snappy, to the point, but highly effective. Thank you, sir. Finally, how can the audience find you? How can they follow you? How can you be part of your journey?

Simi Rayat [00:37:12]:
They can find me on Or

Scott McCarthy [00:37:13]:
they can just listen to this podcast.

Simi Rayat [00:37:15]:
Yeah. Listen to this podcast. Find me on on LinkedIn, Colin d Ellis. My website is colindelis.com, or they can head over to Amazon if you, search Colin d Ellis. You can buy all of my books from there.

Scott McCarthy [00:37:29]:
Perfect. Lister, as always, it’s easy for you. Just go to movingforwardleadership.com/20six. This is episode two zero six, or you can go to +1 09 or +1 77 and listen to, Colin. Check out his links. They’re all there in the show notes. Keep it easy for you. Call my friend.

Scott McCarthy [00:37:45]:
Thank you again so much, and, it’s always it’s always a pleasure. It’s always a good laugh to have you on the show.

Simi Rayat [00:37:51]:
Thanks, Scott.

Scott McCarthy [00:37:56]:
And that’s a wrap for this episode, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for listening. Thank you for supporting the Peak Performance Leadership podcast. But you know what you could do to truly support the podcast and know that’s not leaving a rating and review. It’s simply helping a friend. And that is helping a friend by sharing this episode with them. If you think this would resonate with them and help them elevate their performance level, whether that’s within themselves, their teams, or their organization. So So do that.

Scott McCarthy [00:38:27]:
Help me help a friend win win all around and hey, you look like a great friend at the same time. So just hit that little share button on your app and then feel free to fire this episode to anyone that you feel would benefit from it. Finally, there’s always more. There’s always more lessons around being the highest performing leader that you can possibly be, whether that’s for yourself, your team, or your organization. So why don’t you subscribe? Subscribe to the show via movingforwardviewership.com forward slash subscribe. Until next time, beat, don’t boss, and thanks for coming out. Take care now.