It’s Not Always Right to be Right | Hamish Thomson | Episode 207

Scott McCarthy [00:00:01]:
Today on episode two seven of the peak performance leadership podcast, we speak to coach Hamish Thompson, and he’s gonna tell you why it’s not always right to be right. Yes, you heard that right folks. It’s all about not being right today. Are you ready for this? Alright, let’s do it. Welcome one. Welcome all to the Peak Performance Leadership Podcast, a weekly podcast series dedicated to helping you hit peak performance across the three domains of leadership. Those being leading yourself, leading your team, and leading your organization. This podcast couples my twenty years of military experience as a senior Canadian army officer with world class guests bringing you the most complete podcast of leadership going.

Scott McCarthy [00:00:57]:
And for more, feel free to check out our website at movingforwardleadership.com. And with that, let’s get to the show. Yes. Welcome. Welcome one. Welcome all. It is your chief leadership officer, Scott McCarthy. So great to have you here today.

Scott McCarthy [00:01:28]:
And today, we’re talking about an interesting topic and how it’s not always right to be right. You’re like, what? I know. It sounds a bit of a wonky slash funny title, but you know what? It’s so true. Alright. But before we dive into today’s podcast episode, major announcement coming down. Major announcement. Ready for this? The leadership growth mastermind is ready for you. That’s right.

Scott McCarthy [00:01:59]:
So just a quick little rundown. I am launching a mastermind community with limited space for people who want to level up their leadership game. That’s right. A community that’s gonna be focused around growth and development, accountability, security, safety so that, you know, you can feel comfortable bringing forward various problems, whether that is your subordinates or your supervisors or maybe your business or or your organization’s in a tough spot. Anyway, the moral story is this. It’s gonna be a space for you as a leader to come interact with other leaders in that professional setting while taking benefit of, you know, having access to myself directly, having access to other leaders, having access to weekly coaching calls and group calls, etcetera. Alright. This mastermind community is for you who are hungry, who want more, and simply this podcast is just not enough.

Scott McCarthy [00:03:14]:
If that sounds like you, then flick over to movingforwardleadership.com/mastermind. And that’s gonna bring you to the landing page for this community, and it’s going to explain to you all the benefits, what it’s bringing to the show, and you can apply. Now here’s the catcher. Space is limited. I’m not bringing in everyone who is knocking at the door right away per se. I want to make sure that the size of the community enables people to grow with it. I e, that, you know, it’s not so many people that becomes overwhelming and then suddenly, the quality isn’t there anymore. No.

Scott McCarthy [00:04:01]:
We’re all about quality, not quantity. So that’s why space is limited. And I’m going to be reviewing applications one at a time, as they come in. So if you want to get in on this sooner than later, then you need to act now. And that is simply go to movingforwardleadership.com/mastermind. Alright. Let’s dive into today’s episode. Today, we’re talking to Hamish Thompson, CEO, board, and startup advisor, consultant, speaker, investor.

Scott McCarthy [00:04:37]:
He comes from the beautiful, beautiful country of New Zealand. And essentially, he is the author of the book, it’s not always right to be right. And essentially, what we’re getting at in today’s episode is the need for us as leaders to trust and lean in on our people. Right? We talk about topics such as why leaders don’t have to have all the answers, how to manage constant dissatisfaction as a leader, which news flash, I’ll tell you this is one of the things I personally deal with. How drains and radiators affect your organization? How bad bosses are actually great bosses. Say what? Yep. That’s right. And you know what? So much more.

Scott McCarthy [00:05:27]:
This is a great episode with Hamish, so I know you’re gonna get a lot out of it. Alright. That’s enough for me. Are you ready for this? So why don’t you sit back, relax, and enjoy my conversation about why it’s not always right to be right with Hamish Thompson. Hamish, my friend, welcome to the Peak Performance Leadership Podcast. So good to have you here.

Hamish Thompson [00:06:03]:
Thank you very much, Scott. Looking forward to it.

Scott McCarthy [00:06:05]:
Hey. We’re talking main no. You know, we’re talking leadership, but a a lot of it around your book. It’s not always right to be right. But, you know, first question again, like, what do you mean? Aren’t us as leaders, aren’t we supposed to have all the answers all the time to be the know it all, be the person that everyone comes to seeking that, you know, magical answer for today? Isn’t that the

Hamish Thompson [00:06:31]:
I reckon, I reckon if we all had the answers, we wouldn’t need to be here, but I’m yet to meet somebody who has all the answers, myself included. I think the really interesting factor is I reckon that it’s an interesting title, but I think probably within COVID, I’ve been told by my wife and kids to stop being right or thinking that I’m right, more than I have within probably a dozen years as a CEO. So I think it’s, equally prevalent within personal as well as within business, my friend.

Scott McCarthy [00:07:08]:
Yeah. No doubt for sure. So, you know, let let’s dive into I I’d love to get an understanding of, you know, what was the motivation for you to take your time and write the book because I I can only imagine how much work it was to go into. So what was that driver who said, you know what? I gotta write a book, and I’m gonna write about this.

Hamish Thompson [00:07:31]:
Yeah. I’ve, I’ve got a personality that, there’s a concept I talk around within the book called constant dissatisfaction. So most people have healthy dissatisfaction where they look at things that aren’t going well and want to sort of shake it up and do things differently. Mine is constant, which is not a great one. It can be pretty demanding on that. But even when things are going well, I like to do things that are new, that are different, challenge, push me out of my sort of comfort zone. So I’ve been doing this sort of corporate gig for around thirty odd years, last dozen years, within sort of CEO positions, different sort of, you know, parts of the world. And I just got bored, to be honest.

Hamish Thompson [00:08:11]:
There’s always more challenges, and I could have gone better. And I left a an amazing company, Mars Incorporated, who I may go back to one day because I love the principles and the values with them. But I just wanted to do something different. And my initial motivation was, I got three kids, and I thought, gee, I better start documenting some of these lessons. They never listen to you, your kids. So I thought if I write it down and then, lo and behold, somebody said sort of, hey. Throw it into Wiley Publishing. So, had a good contact there, and, lo and behold, I had to finish the thing.

Hamish Thompson [00:08:47]:
It was enjoyable because it was different. Very, very tedious and demanding and painful edit process of writing a book, but, Wiley helped out through that. So, I liked it. It was different. Pushed me out of comfort zone. Wife still doesn’t either call me an author, so she’s probably right on that. But hopefully, it’s of benefit some of the lessons to others. So that’s the main reasons.

Scott McCarthy [00:09:15]:
Oh, that’s hilarious. Now you’ve mentioned something that piqued my interest, and you talk about the state of constant dissatisfaction. And as you meant were saying that, like, I got the same problem. And I know a number of leaders out there, who have a very similar issue in that. They’re constantly trying to improve things. They’re constantly trying to take on new responsibilities or try different things or, you know, have it whatever you want. This podcast is literally, a a byproduct of my constant dissatisfaction. So from your standpoint, you know, personal now, how do you manage that as a leader so that you don’t kinda, like, run your organization to the ground or take it in a direction that shouldn’t go in? How do you manage that?

Hamish Thompson [00:10:07]:
Yeah. I think, as I said, even though it works for me and I think it works for some people, it can be an incredibly demanding leadership style for others. So I’ve always been sort of, initially, I thought to myself, no. I have to actually start slowing down and, letting other people sort of dictate the pace. And I think that was probably the worst thing possible, and it’s probably the worst advice you can give to somebody. You don’t need to slow down. You simply need to change your leadership style and I suppose two areas that are really important. Firstly, you can’t be a perfectionist if you always want to be ahead of the curve and always try new things.

Hamish Thompson [00:10:50]:
And if you’re a perfectionist, you can demand all that, but you are always going to slow other people down, and you won’t actually satisfy your pace overall. And then secondly, you have to accept that if you want things to be done differently, new ways of working, new methodologies, new, adoptions of technologies and business models, you have to accept that your way of what you think is right may not be the right way. So don’t jump in and direct. You can coach and empower people, but let them actually have their own way to, to go about doing this. And the other thing I think, Scott, is, it’s really dangerous to go in too many different directions within your business. So I have a concept I call the 30% rule, and I take a small part of the business and I put stretch objectives that can only be achieved by doing things in a completely different manner. So new ways of working, new partnerships, connections, to be able to achieve that stretch target of, you know, hypothetically 30%. Now it’s important to do that because you can’t do it across the entire business because some people, just gonna drive them nuts, and you’ll probably lose a little bit of your core revenue and profit streams.

Hamish Thompson [00:12:10]:
But selected parts of your business, go for broke, have fun, satisfy your energy, and surround yourself by good people who will turn around and say, hey. I like that idea, but get back in the box.

Scott McCarthy [00:12:26]:
I love I I I love a lot of that. Right? So, essentially, how I read that is, you know, installing some checks and balances for yourself to make sure you don’t go, you know, completely off course in left field, but embrace it at the same time because it can lead to new and great things. And then finally, empower, you know, empower some what I refer to as trusted agents to say, good idea, boss. Now get, you know, get back online type thing. So lots lots of great tidbits in there for the listeners for sure. Now I’d like to hit a few of the different concepts you’ve gotten, in your book. And the first one that really jumped out at me, and I loved it, was, your concept of drains and radiators. So why don’t you bring the audience through that story and that journey? You know, what’s a drain? What’s a radiator? And how can leaders leverage that for their teams?

Hamish Thompson [00:13:17]:
I think most people, most people inherently get us, and that’s a a drain is what, what it sounds like. They, they suck the lifeblood out of, possibility. It’s always a pessimistic negative attitude. I think in a business setting, particularly when you’re looking at forward ambition and strategic opportunities, they always have limiting beliefs. And often a limiting belief is what’s happened historically in the past. And, even success historically can be a limiting belief going forward. So we all have drain moments. There’s no doubt around it.

Hamish Thompson [00:13:53]:
You have those in your personal life as well. But it’s terrible as a leader to be surrounded by drains as it’ll pull you back. But even worse from a leadership position, you don’t want drains in your organization to negatively infect other people within the organization. And, unfortunately, it spreads like wildfire. Now a radiator, on the other hand, is exactly what it says. It radiates possibility. It has a can do attitude, and it’s incredibly liberating and, and provides a real possibility mindset of what can be done on an ambitious, ambitious nature. And you always fall feel that much taller when you’re around radiators.

Hamish Thompson [00:14:37]:
And I think the important element is some people say that’s all very good, but you don’t want a radiator to be a Pollyanna. It has to be grounded in reality, and a radiator can still challenge. It can provoke. It can be very demanding, can have incredibly crucial conversations, but there’s always an outcome oriented, element. And the other last thing I’d say around a true good radiator, they get stuff done. And great leaders despise inertia where it’s, that Facebook saying don’t confuse motion for impact. I love that. Radiators get stuff done.

Hamish Thompson [00:15:17]:
They’re not only good talkers, because theory without substance is an absolute disaster. So that’s where it comes from. Initially, it was an agency concept, settled in some rather colorful language to all their associates. But, I love it, and it’s, it’s one of the first things that I’ll do from recruitment philosophy as well.

Scott McCarthy [00:15:37]:
Now for the leaders out there who are listening and, you know, looking for new people, Have you figured out how you can assess the difference between someone if if they’re gonna be a drain or a radiator through the hiring process so that, you know, they can identify, you know, in particular to drains because you wanna avoid them? If so how you could identify a drain right away and go, maybe we shouldn’t have this person or go, something seems off here. Let’s dig a little deeper.

Hamish Thompson [00:16:09]:
Yeah. It’s it is a difficult one, and I think, everyone has that problem in regard to recruitment because some people can talk a good game, but whether they actually act that way in reality and is that their authentic self. I have a couple of, methodologies that I use, Scott, and I’ve changed this up over the years. I follow this, recruitment philosophy called c plus w is greater than e. And, it’s called curiosity and willingness is greater than experience. And it’s not always the case, but sometimes when you recruit people in, you don’t need or they don’t need to always have this technical or functional brilliance, but they have to have curiosity and a willingness, to learn and discover new areas. And this insatiable level of curiosity is incredibly important. And, generally, those people are incredibly curious but incredibly passionate with a willingness.

Hamish Thompson [00:17:07]:
They are your radiators as of such. And then I think the other element within your questioning, pose the elements in regard to what they see as the vision and possibility and ambition or stretch that the organization and the role can actually have for them. And you find out very quickly, are they holders of limiting beliefs, or do they actually see that opportunity going forward? And generally, a great radiator is an incredibly well connected and integrator of others. So there’s a multiple of interview techniques that will dig into the depth of their relationships and the breadth of their connectivity as well. And generally, those who are very well connected, insatiably curious, have a massive passion and a belief in opportunity, you’ll quickly discover. But that said, we all get found out pretty quickly. My biggest weakness over the years is that I have let people stay within the organization who are incredibly technically and functionally gifted, but they are negative drains across the rest of the business. And I wish I’d acted in removing them quickly from an organization.

Hamish Thompson [00:18:23]:
That may sound a little bit harsh, but it’s actually, it’s right for them as well because they can join other parts or other businesses, that are more style suited to their persona. Does that make sense?

Scott McCarthy [00:18:37]:
It makes absolute sense, and I I love that. Right? I love that idea that, you know, removing someone from an organization is actually helping them helping them, you know, in multiple ways. One, it’s like removing them and saying, you know what? You’re not a good fit for here. Go somewhere else where you’ll, you know, flourish. Or two, you’re you’re bringing to light that they have some kind of deficiency. Maybe it’s some kind of conduct or how to get along with people or performance issue, and you’re like, sorry, but you need to get yourself squared away before, you know, you can work here. You’re not meeting not meeting to the standard. And and if we don’t do that as leaders, well, how the hell are they even gonna know that they’re not meeting the standard in the first place? So you’re actually doing them a disservice.

Scott McCarthy [00:19:20]:
Right? How many times have I seen people go, oh, good job. Good job. And then they go walk away into their office and go, oh my god. They’re a mess.

Hamish Thompson [00:19:29]:
I’m like,

Scott McCarthy [00:19:30]:
well, then go tell them they’re a freaking mess.

Hamish Thompson [00:19:34]:
You’re, you you you’re so right on that. And it’s, it’s one of these concepts, and I’ve, was told very early this concept around relationships are more important than law and logic. And it is so true. And even though the world, unfortunately, red tape and, bureaucracy is becoming more prevalent, and even with the pragmatism in regard to data and science and facts now, unless you have depth of relationships where day one trust is established through vulnerability, through connection, you’ll never make the most of breakthrough ideas and thinking. And so many times, we see it collectively, amazing concepts, ideas, but they never really go to their full potential. And they don’t fail because of law or logic or even brilliance of the concept. They fail because of lack of quality and depth of relationships. So, I think it’s key.

Hamish Thompson [00:20:36]:
I’ve spent so many years doing, satisfaction engagement surveys, pulse checks, etcetera, which are really important. But ahead of anything else now, first thing, it’s an old cliche, get the right people on the bus. And if they are possibility people and radiators, gee, it makes your life so much easier as a, as a leader and more importantly, more enjoyable as a person.

Scott McCarthy [00:21:04]:
No. Absolutely love it. Now I wanna shift gears a little bit, and you have a chapter here which is titled bad bosses are great bosses. And I will tell you, one of the catalysts for this podcast was an absolutely horrible, I mean, horrible boss. Like, they should have made a movie after this person. But yet you have a title of a chapter saying that person was a great boss. What gifts? How the heck was that person a great boss for me?

Hamish Thompson [00:21:39]:
I think the first thing is, we all have had bad bosses over the years. And most people and it’s, it’s proven through various, various studies. Most people leave an organization not because the values of the organization are wrong or the business, or even the industry. They leave an organization because of their line manager, and, you know, variety of reasons for that. So most people, when you do get a bad boss, your mindset is immediately on, hey. Let’s get out of here. What can I do to get another department, get a promotion, leave somewhere, within that? And, unfortunately, it can actually result in real lost opportunities and a real sort of wasted or distracted time. So my belief and my experience over the years is you can learn a hell of a lot from a bad boss.

Hamish Thompson [00:22:34]:
And the very first thing you do is you identify what behaviors and what style and approach that they do that you will never want to repeat, and you actually document those down. And you can ingrain them and almost indoctrinate them within your future leadership style to never actually repeat those. So it’s a it’s a strange one, but you can actually learn of more of what not to do than what to do from a bad boss. And the other concept related to that is, when you do actually get given a serve, a grilling, or a massive unwarranted, telling off, which we’ve all had over the time, you can either arc up around it, it, get very defensive, or you can actually take it really personally. But if you start to look at the context, not so much the content, the context behind that grilling, why was it given, there’s normally always an amazing insight behind us. Was my style or approach? Did I play it wrong for this particular individual? Why were they getting so upset over something that seems so sort of meaningful? So there is, I always think in tough situations, tough people as well, you can always look for context within a message. And I personally, over the years, I think a lot of my leadership style has been based on what I’ve seen people and experienced of what I don’t like, and I’ll make sure I never do it again. Fortunately, I’ve had, some amazing companies and amazing leaders.

Hamish Thompson [00:24:11]:
But we all know as you, few times over your career, you’re gonna get a bad boss. So, when you get one, leverage the hell out of them.

Scott McCarthy [00:24:22]:
No. It it’s absolutely true. Like, all the best lessons I’ve had throughout my leadership journey, ironically have come from horrible bosses. That’s how I’m not going to be right there. See that that there? That’s how I’m not going to be. When I get there, I’m not going to do that. And in in fact, I’m gonna do the opposite. And I think that’s probably one of the biggest lessons that, you can take out of.

Scott McCarthy [00:24:48]:
And the interesting thing, you mentioned, which I I I’m gonna challenge you a little bit here. You said that people don’t necessarily leave, organizations due to their culture, but they leave because of their bosses. I would argue that, you know what? The culture is caused by the boss. Therefore, yes, you’re right. It’s not due to the culture, but the boss is the reason for the culture. It’s just another symptom of their horribleness. And the podcast or, you know, my whole ecosystem, my my tagline is lead, don’t boss. Right? Because I find that these people are not leaders.

Scott McCarthy [00:25:27]:
They’re bosses, and we wanna eradicate them. There’s a whole mission here at, my ecosystem being moving forward leadership in the podcast, being peak performance leadership podcast. It’s all about, you know, helping leaders out there to realize that they don’t have to micromanage. They don’t have to destroy. They don’t have to destroy. They don’t have to trample and yell and scream and do all these atrocious things to their teams, but rather they’re there to inspire, motivate, uplift, take care of, and do all these great things. So that’s my standpoint.

Hamish Thompson [00:25:57]:
Yeah. And listen. I, I I agree with you entirely on that. And it’s, your cultural viewpoint, if you’ve got an amazing culture and it’s very ingrained with an organization, you would have a workforce and an entire leadership philosophy that follows that completely. And when you do do that, it’s a marriage made in heaven. So when people join a business and if they don’t like it, it’s not that the business is wrong or that they are wrong. It’s just that it’s different and it’s not right for them. Now, unfortunately, Scott, as as you know, even the the best cultures that are ingrained, you still will get your leadership exceptions, that do come along.

Hamish Thompson [00:26:38]:
And this is the really interesting one from, from a very senior leadership level is why do we accept those people that don’t necessarily follow that same cultural norms, those cultural behaviours that we want to set? And why do we have these exceptions within most businesses? And this happens within, you know, small businesses, but also massive, you know, multibillion dollar global organizations as well. And, unfortunately, I think the reason is that historically, if these people have performed incredibly well and have historical success, it’s often hard to remove them, as a leader. But as you’ve said, their influence on the rest of the business, on individuals, and the total culture within it, it, it can be negative. So it’s a tough one to do, but, I think as, you mentioned when if they go out and they join another business that’s right for them, it works for them, and it works for the existing business. It’s always a balance.

Scott McCarthy [00:27:47]:
No. Absolutely. For sure. Oh, it’s a great conversation. Loving it. Let so let’s change up again. There’s definitely another thing I wanted to hit, you know, and that is you talk about the authentic you, which is interesting because I I did a a solo show on a very similar topic. So I definitely would like to pick at your thoughts there.

Scott McCarthy [00:28:13]:
You know, why is it important for leaders to come across as them defend themselves? Shouldn’t they, you know, hide things from their subordinates so they’re not getting judged? But you’re saying the opposite. You should, you know, come across being completely, you know, basically transparent and authentic to them.

Hamish Thompson [00:28:29]:
Yeah. And everyone’s got different views on this, and there’s so much written in regard to, authenticity and the importance of it. My, if I pair it back very quickly, my own experience and I think it’s, it’s quite consistent with many others. When you try and be somebody that you’re not in a work setting, you will never be at your optimal best. And it limits not only your development opportunities and your chance to really bring your best self into work, but equally, when that happens, an organization never benefits. And great organizations love diversity, and it’s not only diversity in regard to gender, race, culture, socio sort of economic. It’s diversity in regard to thought diversity and thought leadership. And that is the brilliance of an organization that embraces that diversity of thought.

Hamish Thompson [00:29:27]:
And when you’re not being authentic, you’re not bringing yourself and your % values, principles, curiosity, perspective into work, and you’re almost channeling yourself to be like others. And the worst thing from a leadership perspective is you don’t want yes people. There’s nothing worse than within leadership of people agreeing with what, what you say. And great leaders value, I feel, anyway. Great leaders value the opinions of others ahead of themselves. And, yes, there is a hierarchy of decision making. You can need to take that, but you need to have that curiosity, and you need to bring out that authentic level for somebody else. And the other thing, what I’ve found is, one, when you’re not authentic, and not being the same person as you are at home as you are within work, it’s bloody tiring.

Hamish Thompson [00:30:22]:
You have to try and there’s always this sort of, this sort of mask or masquerade, and it may not be disingenuous, but it feels as though it’s wrong. And it’s incredibly hard to develop yourself, in oneself as opposed to try and doing that within two. So I found it incredibly difficult, but I also found it incredibly tiring to do as well. And then I think the other element as a leader, you, you need to role model authenticity, and you need to show your vulnerability to others because that’s what really shows trust and true and immediate day one trust when you show your weaknesses and when you show your vulnerability as well. And a lot gets talked around vulnerability, and it doesn’t mean you have to break down in tears on your first day. But if you’re being authentic, you just, you know, showing that you don’t have all the answers, showing your mistakes, but your insights and your learning from mistakes, people do respect them. They do that in a personal basis, and I think they also do it in a work basis as well. So, personally, it certainly has worked for me.

Hamish Thompson [00:31:31]:
I’ve certainly changed a lot over the years, not trying to be somebody who I thought people wanted me to be. And, hey. This is Hamish Thompson. This is my style. Seems to work for a majority, and as long as I do it respectfully but in an authentic manner, I think I’ll always be that much better for it.

Scott McCarthy [00:31:53]:
No. I absolutely agree. I talk often about, you know, being your true self. Letting people see the other side of you, the you know, what you’re interested in outside of work and how you interact. And I I’ve talked about, on the show here, and I’ve talked about how, you know, I I’m a car guy. I’m a gearhead. I enjoy sports cars. I got my my fancy, my car that’s, you know, a little bit of a loud exhaust on it and stuff like this that, you know, that people it turns heads when I when I drive by.

Scott McCarthy [00:32:25]:
But you know what? That’s that’s me. And I talk about this show, and I talk to about the reasons behind doing the show and stuff like this outside of work. And it’s just showing people a glimpse of who I am, but, you know, also kinda what you talked about in the, you know, what do I value and, you know, what do I place, importance on and stuff like this so people can get to know the true me and what’s important to me so that they can bring that to the forefront, you know, in that work context. And as you kinda hit on it, you know, trust trust is the foundation. It’s the cornerstone. You don’t have trust. You can’t lead. People are not going to follow you if they don’t trust you.

Scott McCarthy [00:33:06]:
Therefore, if you’re playing this game where you have this alter ego and you show up to work one way and you leave work in your completely different way, you don’t know if you can trust that person because they don’t know which side you’re getting at. And and in to talk about that horrible boss that I had a little, you know, a little while ago I mentioned them, I would go to their office, and I didn’t know who I was going to get. Was I going to get the happy go lucky boss, or was I going to get the boss I should duck as I enter their office boss because they’re gonna throw something at me because I’ve come with what I didn’t think was bad news, but they’ve interpreted it completely differently.

Hamish Thompson [00:33:48]:
It is, it’s it’s very tough, isn’t it? And I think as, as new starters within a business and think about that as an apprentice, a graduate, or anyone starting within, any area, unfortunately, you, you tend to get into prove mode, particularly within your first three to six months. And when you’re in prove mode, you often change who you are and you hold back your perspectives and your views and your challenges. And from a organization or a manager or a leader, that’s the perfect time to actually try and get new insight and fresh eyes to actually come in. So it can be really dangerous within that prove mode. And I’ve always, you get a lot of feedback within any position as you as you’re well aware. And I have a, an approach where I term it, 98% rule. And this is around 98% what I say. It’s the same within any, any podcast as well.

Hamish Thompson [00:34:45]:
You listen and you remain curious, but it’s only the 2% that resonates strongly with you that you should go away and do something with it. Because often if you take, too much feedback on, you get overwhelmed and you change who you are as a person. And that’s when you lose your authentic self. So you listen to that sort of 3%. You refine who you are, but fundamentally never actually change who you are. And at a young age, that’s bloody hard because you’ve got this imitation theory and you follow others within that. So it’s a difficult balance, and I think most people only sort of probably get to it in their thirties or forties, but, I think even more so even in your twenties. Just stay true to yourself.

Hamish Thompson [00:35:32]:
That’s when you’re gonna be at your best. And when you’re at your best, the organization always benefits.

Scott McCarthy [00:35:40]:
Hamish has been a great conversation. I I thoroughly enjoyed it just like I thoroughly enjoyed reading your book. As we wrap up here, I do got a couple last questions for you. The first being a question I ask all the guests here at the peak performance leadership podcast. As according to you, Hamish Thompson, what makes a great leader?

Hamish Thompson [00:36:00]:
Well, listen. I’m gonna it’s shameless plug back into the title of that book, It’s Not Always Right to Be Right. But, I like leaders who need to know that it’s okay not to be right. And I used to be one of these people, Scott, that every debate, discussion, dialogue, I would try and win, and I was pretty good at it in my, intellectual sparring. But it quickly became apparent that when you think you’re right, you’re limiting that thought diversity. You’re certainly not developing breakthrough relationships, and that’s when relationship stage one, two, and three, that’s when you really get your breakthrough, because nobody wants to, really develop a relationship with you if you’re always right. And then thirdly, you’re not unlocking potential within those in your team. They don’t even challenge you.

Hamish Thompson [00:36:48]:
So I reckon the best leaders, humility, show vulnerability, admit totally, that they, haven’t got it right, and compromise as, as often as they could. So, those would be my elements of, what a great leader would be.

Scott McCarthy [00:37:08]:
Awesome. Now it’s the time for the shameless plug, man. Now. So have at it. Where can people find you? How can they follow you? Where can they grab a copy of your book? Now. Shameless plug. Go.

Hamish Thompson [00:37:18]:
Shameless plug indeed. Hey. So listen. It’s, it’s it’s anything. It’s widely published, so it’s, it’s in, you know, all those sort of bookstores and everything, booktopia and Amazon and stuff. I think it’s, the the only thing I’d say around it is I detest theory without substance. So I’ve made it as practical as anything. There’s a fair bit of vulnerability within it, but, I like the idea of adding value and assisting within that.

Hamish Thompson [00:37:46]:
So we’re at a website if anyone wants to follow-up, Hamish, Thompson, t h o m s o n, dot com. So, yeah, give us a shout out on that. But, hopefully, and most importantly, if anyone reads, I want them to benefit and actually use some of the models accordingly.

Scott McCarthy [00:38:11]:
Awesome. And for you to listen as always, it’s easy. Just go to movingforwardleadership.com/20seven, and the links are in the show notes. My friend, thank you for coming out. Thank you for taking time, at your busy schedule and talking to me when we support the audience today.

Hamish Thompson [00:38:26]:
Great to be with you, Scott. Take care.

Scott McCarthy [00:38:36]:
And that’s a wrap for this episode, ladies and gentlemen. Thank you for listening. Thank you for supporting the Peak Performance Leadership Podcast. But you know what you could do to truly support the podcast and know that’s not leaving a rating and review. It’s simply helping a friend, and that is helping a friend by sharing this episode with them. If you think this would resonate with them and help them elevate their performance level, whether that’s within themselves, their teams, or their organization. So do that. Help me help a friend win win all around and hey, you look like a great friend at the same time.

Scott McCarthy [00:39:14]:
So just hit that little share button on your app and then feel free to fire this episode to anyone that you feel would benefit from it. Finally there’s always more there’s always more lessons around being the highest performing leader that you can possibly be whether that’s for yourself, your team, or your organization. So why don’t you subscribe? Subscribe to the show via movingforwardleadership.com forward /subscribe. And until next time, we eat, don’t boss, and thanks for coming out. Take care now.