Unlocking Your Full Leadership Potential | Wanda Wallace | Episode 272

Scott McCarthy [00:00:01]:

Wanda, welcome to the show. So good to have you here.

Wanda Wallace [00:00:05]:

Pleasure to be here. Thanks for the invitation, Scott.

Scott McCarthy [00:00:08]:

So Our conversation is timely in that I love the title of your book and that you can’t know it at all. Leading in the age of deep expertise, which is interesting. So I actually started a new role. You looked at my background, so you know what I do by day. Right?

Wanda Wallace [00:00:28]:

Yep.

Scott McCarthy [00:00:30]:

So, for you to listen out there, by day, I’m a senior Canadian army officer, and today, a starting new role is instructor teaching our junior officers how to become operational planners, within the army, basically, how we go through our our big planning cycle. And one of my key messages today was you don’t know squat. So very similar to you know, you can’t know at all. So I’m interested. How did this come around? Anyway, where does this, you know, the inspiration, the idea, of, you know, you can’t know it all come from in the first place.

Wanda Wallace [00:01:04]:

Yeah. It comes from years of talking to people that I coach largely in organizations, all sorts of organizations, but many of them, large corporations, global organizations who have had great success, get fabulous performance reviews, are top rated year in and year out, and they’re not getting that next step of responsibility and they don’t understand why. And they just feel like they’ve plateaued, and nobody can explain to them what’s happening. And it’s that’s the spot where I love to catch somebody and help them understand what is required to take that next step in your career, take on greater responsibilities and manage it. And the basic story is the following, Scott. So, you know, you come into an organization, you come into your organization, you have to acquire great expertise until you become an but nobody takes you seriously in what you’re trying to do. So your junior officers have gotta learn their planning. That’s what they’ve got to figure out how to do it and get really, really good at it. Once you master that expertise, you can sit there and stay with that expertise, but that’s what you will be doing day in and day out for forever. If you wanna take on additional responsibilities, then you’re gonna have to step out of the expertise and do something else. But here’s the secret. It’s not that you abandon your expertise. It’s you add on, and there isn’t time for you to develop a whole new other area of expertise. So the question then becomes how do you lead when you know some things, but not everything? Fundamentally, your team knows more than you know. So how do you win them over? How do you get them to follow you? How do you get stuff done? How do you know you’re adding value? How do you inspire people? I mean, all of those questions now become heart and center for how you’re gonna be effective. And that’s what the book is about, and it came from watching people struggle and struggle and struggle.

Scott McCarthy [00:03:10]:

Hi. I I love the premise behind it. I’ve been saying for a while now, leadership we’ve we’ve evolved. I also say not much is new in leadership, but there there there is one key part that has evolved over time. And is in the past, and I’m talking about the past. The key leaders out there were the ones who were seen to have all of the answers. All the right answers. Right? You know, that’s why people well, not not put it as kings, but, you know, got selected to lead, you know, lead or, tribes. Lead groups, whatever, because they had the answers or, you know, the key decision making abilities. Now I say we we’ve evolved and that it’s not all about the answers. It’s about the questions. I’m asking the right questions. Because you hit the nail on the head there is that our the sum of our team is way smarter than what we are now. So Go ahead.

Wanda Wallace [00:04:08]:

Yeah. If you think about any of the problems a leader is trying to solve today, there will be different pieces of information in a dozen a hundred thousand places that you need to bring together, and there’s no way you’ll know enough to know which of those pieces to take and not take and how they all fit together. So you gotta have the people there, and that’s where your job as a leader is bringing those people together. Now that doesn’t say that in the old school, you know, we talk about generalists and general managers. And all you need is general management skill and not today. Because we’re living in a knowledge economy. You’ve gotta know something, but you don’t have to know it all.

Scott McCarthy [00:04:51]:

Absolutely. So your premises, you become an expert, and then you, you know, step outside your comfort zone. But you take that that expertise with you along for the ride.

Wanda Wallace [00:05:01]:

That’s right. That’s right. That’s right.

Scott McCarthy [00:05:03]:

Right. So my next question to you is then How how does one go about, I guess, probably recognizing that they’re at that stage where they’re like, I need to step out here. You know, this obviously is not working for me. I need to add in. And then this the follow on question on that is, how do they even know which direction to

Wanda Wallace [00:05:22]:

go in? Right.

Scott McCarthy [00:05:24]:

To find the rate, you know, new expertise, not expertise, but information knowledge.

Wanda Wallace [00:05:31]:

So If you’re frustrated and you’re watching people get ahead of you and and a corporation that’s typically you’re getting a promotion that they’re getting a promotion that you think you deserve or you’re watching your boss come and the new person come in and you’re just sitting there in the same role doing doing doing doing and not getting the opportunity to step up. That’s a good clue that maybe you need to step out of your comfort zone. Or if you’re getting bored, It’s a clue that you need to step out of your comfort zone. Or if you, want to start to expand your network and the people who know you and the kind of impact you have, then you gotta broaden your exposure and doing that means getting out of your comfort zone. But how you get out of the comfort zone is not leave your current role and your current job. You hang on to your current role and your current job because that’s your calling card. What you’re looking for are things to add on. So I’m looking for a project to add on, an additional assignment to add on an opportunity to influence something. A charitable thing I’m gonna be part of to add on. I’m looking for an add on that takes me away from my expertise. Enforces me to lead when I don’t have all the answers. And that’s your way of showing to the organization, then I can do more. Because if you can do that well, then we’re gonna start to give you more responsibility and more responsibility and more responsibility. That’s where it comes from. You’re kind of person that’s gotta know absolutely everything about everything in order to be confident, comfortable leading, this is you’re gonna struggle.

Scott McCarthy [00:07:09]:

You’re gonna burn out?

Wanda Wallace [00:07:10]:

Yes.

Scott McCarthy [00:07:11]:

No. To be honestly blunt because 1, you’re gonna burn yourself out and 2, you’re gonna burn your team out because you’re just gonna be so demanding on them constantly asking for additional information. And they’re gonna be providing this to you, but at the same time, they’re gonna be trying to get stuff done in a day to day basis to the point where they’re gonna get frustrated and burned out with himself.

Wanda Wallace [00:07:31]:

So — That’s right. Yeah. And you become a roadblock if that’s what you’re doing, which is no fun. Nobody wants to work for that. For somebody, you can’t satisfy and somebody who gets in the way and you can’t get things progressed.

Scott McCarthy [00:07:43]:

Definitely know how that feels. 100%. Let me tell you, and then, you know, the reality is you don’t you’re no longer are adding value, but the reality is you’re taking value away. Yes. So This is interesting. So, you know, you look for those you you you see what’s happening around you. You notice that now, people are getting promoted. They’re getting these new jobs. They’re getting whatever. I want some of that. Why am I not getting it? You know, well, okay. It’s time for me to take on additional responsibilities. So how does one go about finding, you know, where they get them in the first place? Because, you know, if I’m in operations, I don’t think I should be walking down into finance department maybe and be like, hey. Yeah. You know, I’ve got a budget report. Got TPS reporting. Take off your hands.

Wanda Wallace [00:08:32]:

Yeah. Right. Right. But there will be projects and task forces and, you know, sort of, multi functional areas that come together to try solve a problem. Put your hand up and say I wanna be part of that. And, yes, you’re going to represent your area of expertise, but that’s your opportunity to see how all these other areas work and to ask questions. And to understand how your area interfaces with all those others. So, you know, some of that work is some of that volunteer work is actually a really good idea. Or a sec you ask how do you find this? This is where mentors become really critical. He’s a mentor can help you sit back and say, well, what are your core skills, Scott. And where could I see those skills being deployed within our organization? And, you know, who do I know that I can introduce you to so you might get involved in some of what they’re doing over there. So if you’re in operations, for example, one of the adjacent areas in most organizations has to do with risk. Or risk analysis or compliance. That’s an easy place to start looking and say, again, I’m not leaving my operational job, but I’m saying what else can I begin to get involved in? That’s, I can add add value to. And, you know, one of the other things is most organizations have some charitable event that they organize or some big you know, community event that they organize. Volunteer to lead those. We’re gonna involve them leading a part of that because, again, you’re outside your expertise in your showcasing your capability to lead without having to have all the information to bring people together, get the best out of a group of people. That’s what we’re looking for.

Scott McCarthy [00:10:16]:

I really like those suggestions, especially in the cross functional teams. I think that is crucial because one you get to know more people across the organization. 2, you get to understand how important their role is and how it affects the rest of the organization. But I think the most important thing is is that You’re showing the ability to interact with other types of people. Right? Finance people are different than operations. People Right. Definitely different in sales. Let’s say that. Right? You know, and so on. So, there there’s a lot of great info there. I actually had a client very similar situation on what you’ve been talking about from a client in line. And one of the things I talked to him about was I said, He was trying to get the next level up. He’s trying to come to the same level as his supervisor. So, okay. Well, you’ve got to show that you can think not at your boss’s level, but your boss’s boss’s level. In the army, we call that 2 up. You know, what’s your 2 up your 2 ups intent? So look at you know, not just your boss, you know, what they’re working on, but rather look at their supervisors, what they’re looking on, what’s important to them where where, is their focus right now and see where you might, you know, kinda slide in and grab a little bit of that that that extra responsibility.

Wanda Wallace [00:11:41]:

It’s absolutely true. I mean, I call that being strategic. So you’re thinking not about what your boss needs immediately, but you’re thinking about what your boss’s boss is seeing, anticipating, worried about and you’re trying to think, what am I doing that is helping my boss’s boss and how do I communicate it to my boss’s boss? In the language my boss’s boss would typically use. At the level of detail, they wanna know as well, which is usually not your own. So, yes, that step 2 up is absolutely totally a good way to begin to stretch those strategic thinking skills.

Scott McCarthy [00:12:20]:

That’s awesome. I like that. I like the way you put it probably a bit more certain way I put it, but, hey, it works both ways. Trying to think that you you hit on something and it’s just totally slipped my mind. Oh, this is what I wanted to ask you. So You know, we’re here. We’re we’re getting into this project. Maybe we’re in a multi, you know, multi faceted team, multi dimensional team or something like this. And then it hits us the imposter syndrome.

Wanda Wallace [00:12:49]:

Oh, yeah.

Scott McCarthy [00:12:51]:

Right? Like, what am I doing here? I I don’t know anything. I don’t know what I’m doing. Yeah. So what’s your advice for the leaders out there who find themselves in that in that scenario. And, actually, 2, a double facet question, very similar. 1, advice for leaders if they find themselves in their scenario where they are feeling imposter syndrome, being a part of a multidimensional team and so on, or 2, they have a person who’s in this scenario, and they come out and say, listen. Like, I don’t know what I’m doing. I I feel, obviously, they feel imposter syndrome, so on and so forth. And what advice should they give to their person in that situation?

Wanda Wallace [00:13:32]:

Okay. I have a whole long spiel on this one. Let me do this from the person who’s feeling like an imposter. Okay. When you are the expert and operating in your zone of expertise and you know every thing that is reasonable to know about your particular area, usually we don’t feel like a pot imposter. I can go to any meeting. Anybody can ask me any question. Confidence is strong. Even if I don’t know something, I notice reasonable, but I don’t know because I’m in my comfort zone. The moment you step outside of your comfort zone, outside of your expertise, Your confidence is going to start to raise its head and go, wait a minute. And this is where you’re gonna feel like an imposter because you don’t know as much as you think you probably need to know. It is 100% normal. And if you don’t experience it, then you’re probably too arrogant. So when you step out of your comfort zone, it’s normal. And I almost don’t wanna use the word syndrome anymore. Because it’s just a fact of human behavior. I’m not in my I don’t know everything. And now what I gotta say Jeez, I don’t know everything. Now the anecdote to this is to dig into 2 things. 1, what is it that I do know? What’s and what’s my value in this situation? What’s my contribution? So if you go back and you say to yourself, right, I’m not familiar with this particular data analysis that we’re doing. This is outside my comfort zone. I volunteered to do this. This is what I wanna learn. What I really do know is how our operations collects data. And my contribution on this team is gonna be representing that in terms of helping people understand the process that we come to getting this data. So I see what my value is. I see what my knowledge base is, and I can’t know at all. So you come with your strength with what you know and how you know it. That’s how you get over the imposter syndrome. The third piece of this one is you gotta get comfortable with saying, here’s what I’m good at. And here’s what I don’t know. Authenticity, I believe, is at the end of the day, a judgment. That’s a combination of confidence in what I do know and humility about what I don’t know. Because when I’m humble and I say, geez, Scott, you’ve been doing this for 20 years. I don’t know your area so well. I’m making you feel good. You’re now gonna help me. So long as I’m confident about some stuff that I So that’s those are the anecdotes to deal with the imposter syndrome. Number 1, it’s normal. Number 2, what’s is it that you do know and what is your value on this team. And then number 3, this balance of confidence in humility, which we all love. K. Now if you’re someone who’s trying to coach someone through feeling like an imposter, you’re gonna go through exactly that same scenario. One, tell them this is normal, and give them a story about a time you stepped out of your comfort zone and felt like an imposter so that it feels natural. And then number 2, you’re gonna help them focus on what they are really good at, what they do know, and what the value is they’re bringing to this cross functional team. And as a senior person, you probably have a line of sight on that that the individual doesn’t. And then from there, off we go to the races and then talk about this balance of humility and confidence and how it’s okay to say. I don’t know.

Scott McCarthy [00:17:15]:

Love it. Absolutely. Love it. And I think it, you know, it it’s so it’s just simple. Focus on what you do know to get that confidence going. And and here’s the reality is you focus on that and you’re in a room with a group of people don’t really understand or know what you do, you’re gonna look like a rock star. Like, they’re all gonna be like, wow. Oh, wow. You’re so good. Right? And that kinda helps diminish that. I also like the whole humility aspect of it. You know, I I think we’re we’re slowly coming out of the age where people believe it’s wrong to say, I don’t know. But rather it’s becoming accepted, which is beneficial. I was having a conversation with the colleague and saying for far too long, organizations have been full of, essentially, yes, man. People telling your supervisors what they’re they believe their supervisors want to hear, but it’s what the reality is actually on the ground. And that goes back to saying, know, I don’t know. I don’t know what the answer is. I know I know who could know who should know the answer, or I know where to get the answer. That’s okay to say.

Wanda Wallace [00:18:30]:

Some parts of the answer.

Scott McCarthy [00:18:32]:

Yeah.

Wanda Wallace [00:18:32]:

Or I’m gonna make space for my colleague over here who actually does have some information that would be useful. I mean, that wins friends and influences people, right, left, and center.

Scott McCarthy [00:18:43]:

Absolutely. And I guess that would be a great way to segue into interacting with others. And and your advice for leaders out there who are, you know, in the in this area of trying to kinda, you know, grab a little bit more. How might they communicate and interact with others in a way that doesn’t necessarily come across as negative because I see, like, that could come across like, oh, you’re trying to get you know, oh, you’re trying to take on more responsibility. You can look at it positively, or you can look at it negatively and that, oh, you’re just trying to brown those dots. Oh, you’re trying to get that promotion, you know, in a very negative connotation. So I’d love to get your tips on interacting with others in that that realm.

Wanda Wallace [00:19:27]:

So as not to come across as brown nosing to use your expression there. Okay. This we could talk about this one for the next 5 days because there is so that I think are gonna work pretty well. And so let’s hit those, and then you can ask me more details. Number 1, if I’ve been working with you and I have never done anything nice for you. I’ve never done a favor. I’ve never chatted with you. I’ve asked how your work is going. I never tried to help you. You know, I’ve never done anything nice with you. You’re not gonna have a good ad attitude about anything I do even if my intentions are really good. So, you know, one of the starting places in all of this It should kinda gotta build some credibility with people by giving a little rather than just taking or ignoring. So this is one of my first principles is what are you giving to other people before you’re asking? Alright. Second thing, the thing that people do all the time, especially when you’re really smart and your deep expertise in something. And people say something and you cut them off and you say, no. That’s not right. That’s not how it goes. I know the answer and off you go charging. Well, that leaves people feeling pretty incompetent. And if you leave people feeling pretty incompetent, I can guarantee you they’re gonna resist you, and they’re gonna have a pretty bad interpretation of you and what you’re trying to do and why you’re trying to do it. So you don’t you wanna leave people feeling competent at every single turn. Even when you’re giving them feedback about something they have missed, you want to leave them feeling confident. It’s a tall order, but it’s a really important one. And the second thing is you wanna leave people feeling like they matter. They’re significant. They’re important. And you do that in a host of ways, the chit chat, the doing favors, the showing what you value at people, naming what somebody did really well, calling it out, all of those positive attributes, leave people feeling significant and important. And when they feel significant and important, they’re gonna have a more positive reaction to you. If they feel insignificant, they’re gonna get defensive, and it’s not gonna go very well. So gonna give you an example about this. I was talking to somebody earlier today. Who said I have to give, to somebody who has more formal authority in the organization than I do I think that the judgment they’ve made about what to do is the wrong judgment, and it’s having consequences. I don’t think they’ve thought through. Alright. And let’s assume that that’s true in this moment. K? So going to somebody with more authority and saying, or more education. Excuse me? And saying, I think there’s something you missed here is probably not gonna go very well. They’re probably gonna say in effect, get back in your box, and do your job, and leave me alone. But if you start that with saying Look. I really think that your insights on this particular problem are enormously valuable, and I really enjoyed working with you on this. Start with a genuine compliment that I really mean that’s evaluating somebody. And then I’m gonna offer a piece of data. You know, I’ve noticed that x is actually not working according to plan. And then your magic, Scott, use a question. I’m wondering how that resonates. With your knowledge, with your wisdom, and so on. And now we can have a conversation, a conversation where someone might listen to me saying, I think there’s another way to do this, but I haven’t made them wrong. I haven’t made them incompetent, and I haven’t devalued them in the process.

Scott McCarthy [00:23:41]:

I think one of the big things there. I love I love that that whole process, by the way. One of the things it does is it avoids something which I absolutely despise. And that’s what I call it the blame game. Right?

Wanda Wallace [00:23:55]:

Yes.

Scott McCarthy [00:23:55]:

It’s, you know, it’s messed up because it’s your fault. It’s your fault that is, you know, And I hate it because it serves nothing. It serves no one. In the end, it doesn’t help anyone and it definitely doesn’t help fix the situation. So, you know, I I really appreciate the way you you you did that and that, you know, get the other person on track for the same time, you did it in a way that they felt psychologically safe to continue to open up. Mhmm.

Wanda Wallace [00:24:27]:

So — That’s the secret.

Scott McCarthy [00:24:29]:

That is definitely the secret for sure. It’s not easy, though.

Wanda Wallace [00:24:34]:

No. It’s a tall order. And the many days people test your patience on all of those. And part of the job of effectively communicating with people is finding that space where you can value them, make them feel significant, make them feel competent, and even make them feel like they might be sort of light.

Scott McCarthy [00:24:57]:

Yeah. Definitely, sort of liked it, but I would say it boils down to ultimately respect it. As long as people feel respected, the they’ll be they’ll definitely be like, okay. You know, it’s a it’s okay. We might not necessarily like each other, get along each other. Not don’t wanna go for drinks after work, but if there’s mutual respect, you can you can definitely get along the way.

Wanda Wallace [00:25:18]:

That’s why I say sorta liked. You know, Scott’s okay.

Scott McCarthy [00:25:24]:

He’s okay. I’m

Wanda Wallace [00:25:25]:

not inviting him home for dinner, but Scott’s okay. We wanna get to that place, and that’s where working relationships start to, generate really positive results. And it’s where collaboration comes. If you’re trying to collaborate with people and they’re not feeling significant and competent and somewhat liked and respected, you’re gonna struggle to get anything out of them.

Scott McCarthy [00:25:49]:

Let’s hit a a bit on that whole collaboration aspect because it’s crucial, especially with, you know, the title of your book. You can’t know it all. So What’s some advice you have out there for leaders collaborating with different types? Like, some people are very difficult you know, let’s say, authoritarian, but, like, you know, very, very egocentric. You have other people who are very shy quiet. And then you have others who necessarily don’t necessarily didn’t listen to respond without necessarily knowing it by listening to to understand. So I’m just curious on your your perspective on, you know, collaborating with different types of people and how leaders who are trying to go a bit above and beyond can work with these types.

Wanda Wallace [00:26:44]:

Alright. The first thing is my mother I’m gonna quote my mother. She always said it takes all types. And I will say the same in any organization. You’re gonna find all types. You’re gonna find people who are very egocentric. You’re gonna find people who are so shy. You can’t it’s hard to get much out of them. You’re gonna find people who listen, people who don’t listen, people who are talking it, people are talk about it. I mean, it just it’s a whole collection of types. If you’re gonna lead and you’re gonna lead at any scale, you’re gonna have to get good at getting the best out of all of those different types of personalities. So it’s a journey. And you start with 1 and you start with one personality type that you’re struggling with and figure out how to make it work. Now, again, we’re not looking to become best friends, friends. I’m looking to say, how do we have an effective communication? How do we have effective working? How do we build some degree of trust? K. So here’s what I say to people that have to do that. Number 1, whoever it is that you are working with. Someone in the organization values them for something, or they wouldn’t be there. Question is what are they valued for? Who values them? Why they value them? If you can find that, even if it’s just one thing, and show that respect for what they’re valued for, you’re gonna find it’s a whole lot easier to work with them. So that’s my number. What’s my number one piece of advice? My number two piece of advice is watch your own judgments. Okay. So I have worked with several people that I find Painful to work with, particularly on a client basis. And they’re not, to me, they’re not friendly. They’re they sound mean. They sound angry. They sound, you know, But when I just say they sound mean, I made a judgment. I know nothing about what’s really going on for them, what the agenda is, whether they’re mean, whether they’re not mean, when I make that judgment, I limit my ability to interface with them. So if I can stay with, jeez, that person is quick to give their point. Not make the conclusion about why or what, you know, any of that stuff, then I’ve got a chance of working with him. And I swear to you, every single one of those people that I’ve encountered have turned out being really good clients, really big fans, somewhat of friends, but I had to get over my initial, Iq, reaction, and my judgment about that.

Scott McCarthy [00:29:33]:

I really like the first bit you said there. You know, they’re they’re there for a reason. We just gotta understand what that reason is. Right? It’s basically see see them where they’re at.

Wanda Wallace [00:29:45]:

They have something to offer a value. What is it show the respect for that for that one thing?

Scott McCarthy [00:29:51]:

100%. I I think that’s probably the biggest takeaway for anyone out there right now. Wanda, it’s been a a great interesting conversation for sure. However, all the good things that come to an end. Before we wrap up here, I do got a couple last questions for you. The first being question asked all the guests here at the peak performance leadership podcast. It’s according to Wanda Wallace. What makes a great leader?

Wanda Wallace [00:30:16]:

Somebody who can get the most — get the best, excuse me, out of the most number of people. So large numbers of people in an efficient manner. It is always a trade off function. I’m looking for great performance out of a broad range of people. And I can’t take all day to get there. I I think those that’s what we are looking for to judge leadership at the end of the day. But if you ask the qualities that make a great leadership, what’s interesting to me is that there are many, many, many, many qualities. I mean, pick up any book, they’ll list dozens of them, and I can give dozens more. I think the secret sauce for leadership is ultimately a balancing act. For inequality, if I overdo that, I’m going to have a problem. So if I’m direct and I overdo that, gonna be a problem in some situations, and I’ve gotta learn to both be direct and be diplomatic. I’ve gotta keep that balance intention. And just like the title of my book, you gotta have some expertise, but if you over rely on that expertise, you’re gonna have a problem. So and like I said, with authenticity, I need to be humble and I need to be confident. Leadership is a constant journey of balancing to polar opposites and not getting stuck on one side or the other so that you can adapt to the person, to the situation, to the need.

Scott McCarthy [00:31:42]:

Love it. It’s interesting to hear the first time. I think that’s probably the first time someone’s brought in efficiency and effectiveness into that answer. Pretty sure. But I but I I really enjoy it. And I and a a bit I I I thoroughly enjoy the adaptiveness that you brought up because I talk about that all the time and talk about that to my members. I host a mastermind community. So we have members who, show up and, you know, just trying to elevate their skills. We have weekly calls and stuff. And I often talk to them about, what I refer to is my leadership spectrum. So on one side is, you know, completely they say fair, and the other side is complete authoritarian. I’m like, and you have to be able to maneuver across that spectrum based on the situation that is in front of you.

Wanda Wallace [00:32:31]:

Yep.

Scott McCarthy [00:32:31]:

Right. And I have had so many clients go, or or I’ve been on podcasts where the the host is like, so what’s the best leadership style? I’m like, All of them and none of them. I’m gonna go, what? I’m like, it’s all based off of the situation in front of you. You have failed to walk in and the diplomatic and, you know, trying to resolve some conflict. And then after that’s done, walk out of that room and go into another room and fire somebody, which is complete authoritarian because, unfortunately, it’s gonna be an addition by subtraction, and that happens sometimes, and that’s fine.

Wanda Wallace [00:33:05]:

K.

Scott McCarthy [00:33:05]:

And then you have to walk into another room and be a team member. And that could all happen within the span of 20 minutes. So that’s why I I definitely appreciate your answer. The follow-up question of the show is where could people find you follow you part of your journey, shameless plug all yours now.

Wanda Wallace [00:33:24]:

Uh-huh. Alright. The easiest way to find me is on LinkedIn, Wanda T Wallace, but I’m also on Instagram at Wanda T. Wallace. I’m on Twitter at ask Wanda. I’m on Facebook at Wanda Wallace. I We’re on TikTok at Wanda T Wallace. Website is leadership dash forumdot com. You can find me there. There’s an email to send it to me, and I also have my own website, wandawallace.com. I think you if you check any one of those, you should be able to pop me up.

Scott McCarthy [00:33:57]:

Awesome. For listeners always, it’s easy. Just head to the show notes. You’ll see the link there. It’s this episode number. Basically, lead donbas.com forward slash the episode number. Alright. So be sure to check them out. They’re there for you. Wanna, again, thanks for, taking time at your busy schedule this evening and joining us. Appreciate it.

Wanda Wallace [00:34:14]:

Thank you very much. Thanks for the invitation.