Breaking Ice & Breaking Glass | Vice Admiral Sandy Stosz

Today, our nation is like a ship being tossed in tumultuous seas. The winds and waves of change have divided and distanced our society, threatening to wash away the very principles our nation was founded upon. Now more than ever, our nation needs leaders with the moral courage to stand strong and steady—leaders capable of uniting people in support of a shared purpose by building the trust and respect necessary for organizations and their people to thrive.

Admiral Sandy Stosz started out in the US Coast Guard as an ensign serving aboard polar icebreakers, conducting national security missions from the Arctic to the Antarctic. Her forty-year career was filled with leadership lessons gleaned while breaking ice and breaking glass as the first woman to command an icebreaker on the Great Lakes and to lead a US armed forces service academy. Along the way, Sandy served for 12 years at sea, commanding two ships, and led large Coast Guard organizations during times of crisis and complexity. She finished her career as the first woman assigned as Deputy Commandant for Mission Support, directing one of the Coast Guard’s largest enterprises. She has lectured widely on leadership, and has been featured on CSPAN and other media outlets. In 2012, Newsweek’s “The Daily Beast” named Sandy to their list of 150 Women who Shake the World.

Topics

During this interview Sandy and I discuss the following topics:

  • What brought her to become a leader in the US Coast Guard
  • How she broke out her shell and develop her leadership skills
  • Some of her leadership challenges that she overcame in her career
  • The great leadership success of her career
  • Her thoughts on how to build cohesive teams
  • Her advice for women leaders out there

Guest Resources

If you are interested in learning more about Sandy’s resources be sure to check out the following links:

Transcript

Speaker

sandy welcome to the show so good of you here, hey scott, I’m really excited to be here with you tonight so doubt it’s obviously has not noticed anything because I kept producing episode after episode, but this is actually my first episode back for my summer, vacation of twenty twenty one. So bad

00:00:22

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with me, I might have some russ,

00:00:27

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but what would it show? I’m excited to get you here, former real retired, vice admiral of the us coast guard like boom gotta. Have you here now. My first question: diving in is like what got you interested in one, the coastguard, but

00:00:45

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to most of early for the topic of the show.

00:00:49

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A leadership visit, your opportunities with in the coastguard when we started their first, that’s a big question. I could spend the whole time on just that question scott, so I try to give a condensed version. Have I got interested in the coastguard? I think it’s important for your listeners to hear that I didn’t have these agree

00:01:09

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plans when I was a child or a teenager. I didn’t know what I wanted to do. There are a lot of choices and the opportunity is what really made it possible for me to have a career as a leader in the coastguard in nineteen. Seventy six, when the defense authorization act,

00:01:29

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united states required that all the armed forces service academies open their doors to women. I was a junior in high school, so I was living in ellicott city maryland and it made the baltimore sun our local paper. There was a feature article on the naval academy in annapolis. That’s why the baltimore sun was a paper and a name

00:01:49

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aber walked it over to me and and told to my mother and told my mom hey. We know sandy’s a tomboy and maybe she’ll think this is interesting. This new opportunity for women to attend it was an all male school up until this year, so as a junior in high school. That’s when you’re looking for colleges, so I have been looking at what I wanted to do.

00:02:09

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Do that or navy and marine biologist something to do with science, but this opportunity came along and I looked it over and said: wow I get a chance to

00:02:19

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have an adventure go to see, see the world oh and by the way, it’s a free education, and you owe five years of service afterwards to pay back the united states government for funding your education. So I’m like hey. This is an opportunity and seize it. So I didn’t have a plan to serve in the coastguard, but I sees an opportunity that had

00:02:39

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never been available and I entered the coastguard academy in a third class to have women.

00:02:48

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That’s neat and interesting once a kind of salon. However, I did go through our royal military college here and I was the exact opposite. I learned both arm see when I was great. I said: that’s where I’m gonna go and that’s what I’m gonna do

00:03:01

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if you’re new, crazy

00:03:04

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news, but the funny part is the I say that is. I wanted to do that because, where I grew up and back home in newfoundland, canada ever did one of three things. When rudra high school, I went to were more university, you went to college north atlantic or you went and picked up a job. Mostly nowhere and I was like well, I’m gonna be different, so I’m going to go arm, see

00:03:24

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one university where everyone is exactly the same all ever it

00:03:29

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and you know scott. I also didn’t plan to be a leader so at that age as a teenager, I was a shy young girl little bit less than confident, and I it was a big step for meta to go to what was mostly an all male college. At the time I wasn’t thinking of being a leader sinking of

00:03:49

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getting through and hit surviving it’s a four year college. I was looking to graduate and you know the coastguard, though, gave me so many opportunities that forced me out of my comfort zone

00:04:02

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into leadership positions starting there at the coastguard academy for those four years. So I didn’t look at going to the coastguard into the: u s military, to be a leader, but I soon realize what another opportunity was being placed before me with leadership positions, and I found that

00:04:22

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that is my confidence grew. So did my desire to fulfill my full attention potential to be a good leader, so it kind of grew with the opportunities that I took.

00:04:36

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You mentioned something which a lot of readers, oh their struggle with, and I see it in our facebook group too, and we have something like forty two hundred people in this facebook and it’s a pretty common thread right now of you’re breaking out of that show and getting

00:04:56

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comfortable with yourself as a leader and actually know I’ll, be honest. I feel that every time ago promote it right and you probably did too,

00:05:04

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even as you grow up sort of water per se, you’re like oh I’m going to get now harpoon this level and break out of my show this level. So, what’s your advice of their forty people are worsening hurling? Know, I’m shy, I’m now being put into this leadership position or being locked up for leadership position. I would like it, but I’m not too sure what you have for them had

00:05:24

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break out of that and really get into it.

00:05:27

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I’ll tell a story because people like stories in it’s one that resonates when I graduated from the coastguard academy was commissioned as an ensign in the us coastguard. I was sent to my first ship, which was a polar icebreaker station in long beach. California, and we sailed within a couple weeks for a five month, deployment

00:05:47

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in arnica. What an amazing opportunity for a young woman they weren’t that was two hundred and twenty people on a ship. Aren’t that many women there are probably two of us officers and maybe twenty enlisted women and I was assigned to break in to qualify as an underweight officer of the deck which meant

00:06:07

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sit up on the bridge and drove the ship. When the captain wasn’t there I’d be in charge of the bridge watch and then the whole ship, quite frankly, so navigating the ship on its course

00:06:19

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and that’s a lot to learn, but I was breaking in for that job and getting my confidence getting my competence and came to the point where I felt competent and all the qualified watch genders. I was breaking in with who are helping me to learn, so I could earn that qualification. We’re recommending me too

00:06:39

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be qualified and the captain had to sign a letter. My boss had to recommend me that my boss wasn’t ready to recommend me, and I asked him. What more do I need to do? I can do all the tasks. I’ve done all that’s required. Then it looked at me and said this is something missing. He said I’m not going to qualify you until you stand on the bridge of that ship, like john

00:06:59

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wayne, with a six gun in each hand, barking orders and for those who don’t know john wayne, he was a western hero back decades ago, but he was this story happened decades ago,

00:07:12

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and so oh my gosh, I’m a shy young woman, I’m I’m, I feel like I’m quietly competent. I would rather ask people to do what they’re supposed to do, not bark orders, and so my boss told me I had to bark orders I mean imagine, are introverted person, you’re, shy and quiet who just wants to win people’s respect and build trust. Imagine a purse

00:07:32

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and like that which was me barking orders. So I worried a lot about being becoming john wayne cowboy with the guns. Fifth barking orders hagen and I realized it occurred to me. I’m not john wayne, I’m going to try to be john wayne. I’m competent, but not confident. Incompetence without confidence is

00:07:52

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nothing because my boss noted he had it in his mind something missing in her, and it was that I didn’t have the self confidence to go with my competence. So my message to people who want to rise up is you have to reach beyond your comfort zone and you have to exude. You didn’t believe in yourself

00:08:12

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be comfortable in who you are. You are not john wayne. You are in my case sandy stoves and since anastos, and you can be comfortable with that. You gotta believe in who you are and that confidence will exude and will make other people believe in you, so that you can earn that that recommendations or qualification, and if you don’t believe in yours,

00:08:32

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how are you going to believe in the people you lead? You’re gonna not be treating them the way they should be treated so believing in yourself and being who you are having the confidence to pair with that competence is how you succeed, going into ever more and more responsible jobs

00:08:50

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or was a proffer, was that’s a great story and are you are the what even expand on and say you when you exude confidence, you don’t get others to believe in yourself, but they begin to believe in whatever it is that you’re toying, for example, if you’re, given those orders- and we me laugh or port- sorry, poor, poorer

00:09:10

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yo and people ago, she know what she’s doing like ariel. We grew apart now like I have no idea, I’m just assuming her saw you do it,

00:09:20

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but the mall stores this when you can exude confidence. People begin to believe in now you, but what you’re also preaching what beyond that could be from directions of of of navigating the ship or you’re expanding your vision, putting her vision out there trying to get people believing in the company organization get through that rough patch, so yeah

00:09:40

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love it confidence. Compliments they gotta go hand in hand for sure yeah and a lot of people, they kind of sit back and they believe their boss. They blame the system they’re not succeeding here because of there not being included discrimination or something well have you stood up for yourself first before you,

00:10:01

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I’m other people. I didn’t blame my boss, I said hey. What is it about me that are missing that he’s noticing, and I took it on myself to make it work instead of blaming my boss, claiming something else.

00:10:17

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That’s awesome, those very words of vice, because it’s all voted. Moto talk, rose, extreme leadership and that’s basically taking ownership of every note every problem and you could sit. There is too easy for people to blame other people, but drought is when you sit back and actually digests the situation at hand

00:10:34

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most of the time, and I mean a significant amount of most of the time it was back to you- might use the leader. What could have you done? You probably could have done something to mitigate or make that situation better or better yourself or simply asked a question like you did in there.

00:10:53

Speaker

So so let us thought: let’s talk a little bit yeah. Let’s talk a little more ass as you develop your career. What were some of the leadership challenges that ruling style sticks out in your mind that you had to overcome and no, how did you overcome them

00:11:10

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through your career? Well, so when I was young and I go back to when I was young a lot because my foundation was built when I was younger based on core values that shape my character and experiences I have when I was young provided the foundation that let me

00:11:30

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lead at higher and higher levels as I went up to my career. So when I was young on ana one of my first ships, I had a hard time getting one of my people to do the job he was to do and it was person had been in trouble and he was on punishment assignment that I was in charge of oversight.

00:11:51

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Seeing and

00:11:54

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I just he didn’t want it. Do the job, but he’s already in trouble, so he wasn’t as apt to be polite, respectful as many people in the military are because he was our huge trouble where you’re in the army got. You seen. You know what I mean by that. So I went to my boss. I say I I said I am having a hard time leading this, this sad

00:12:14

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of person to get his job done in my boss, like the man said sandy, there are three kinds of power: personal power, professional power and position power, and I call this a three piece of power and he said if you’re gonna succeed, you want to lean on the first two and go to the last, which is position

00:12:34

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power only when you’re really have to with no other choice. So I learned about my career, tease my personal power, that’s how you’re your personality or empathy, emotional intelligence, making people want to follow. You not have to follow you personal power and your professional

00:12:54

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power. How you present yourself, you’re you’re, non professional demeanor, your competence

00:13:01

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in in your job, your willingness to work to get the job done so personal power, professional power, and why? How often do you have to use your your your stripes in your rank, so the more senior I got even all the way up to vice admiral? I tried really hard to not use my position power to always

00:13:21

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go and had built for years and years, my personal and professional power and those are the best leaders. I think, because they’re earning that respect and building that trust every single day, regardless of how senior they are

00:13:38

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it. The three p’s careers are more like the the personal power is definitely worry where, where the magic is that right with the ring of lean on that positional power, it is college. People rose like farm, I’m doing only because you could fire me or reprimand me regroup, know whatever, but

00:13:57

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but you think I got your back when times get tough and bland the first time I can, you know, undermine you or known, but not cut your throat, but you know all those negative types of things or you come to me asked me to work overtime, because this project is give finish tonight for tomorrow’s presentation own like go now.

00:14:17

Speaker

No, no! No! That’s! Okay,

00:14:19

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because you know you, you hold that position over them. Merz when your personal, you build that frost, it’s more it’s more beyond just a job or that leader to subordinate relationship, it’s actually developing a you’re, a cohesive relationship with the person where I can trust you. You can trust me rigor. I got your back.

00:14:40

Speaker

You got my back and will take care of it, but yeah. Sometimes we have those difficult members and sometimes you just got to put them in their place and nova. You gonna rely on that, but ultimately it’s gotta be the last resort and was gonna be in that box with blossom front of your break break glass in case of emergency box, because you can’t that can’t be

00:15:00

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the only thing you go to dan, dare

00:15:03

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right and there’s times when you and I both have had to punish somebody and, quite frankly, most of the times where I’ve had to had somebody standing in front of me to mete out punishment. It’s sad been something that everybody has understood, that this is where we need to be, and even the member themselves.

00:15:23

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It’s often acknowledges that day

00:15:26

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watch too far off over the line and and they’re paying the price. So I think that’s the key to success in a leader is when you have to hold people accountable. Do they understand why and they accept it, they might not like the fact that they were held accountable, but they understand. Why accept it and

00:15:46

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everybody else understand why and down and there’s good morale good. We call it good order and discipline in the military. So that’s what you want to achieve is our atmosphere where everybody feels they’re fairly treated and if you don’t hold people accountable, who were messing up. Everyone else knows that the people who are working hard to integrate they’re like oh, why am I working hard and doing the right thing

00:16:06

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when this guy or gal is getting away with it every day? So you have to hold people accountable and be

00:16:14

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discipline.

00:16:16

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Have the discipline when need to have it

00:16:19

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her henderson out even say I hate doing that. I despise it, although very good at about hated.

00:16:27

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To be honest, I hate tuna because I feel like I failed, I feel like I failed a member. If you’re a young, I’ve gone to the point where the sniper thing, but you’re right and even doubled down on what you said about having to hold people count, then it allows other people to use, know you’re you’re, accepting it you’re condoning the activity by allowing to have

00:16:47

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and right- and I remember when I took command of my squadron of two hundred members- and there were some issues with some people also conduct, and I was like guys like: has anyone talked to them about the strike? Now, while you’re condoning it you’re allowing your accepting it? Therefore, not only is he going to be rude, but so is she so is

00:17:07

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him? So is the rest of the team? Why? Because this is now acceptable. Behavior within this organization, which overall round here sitting around my dad saying how bout it is one. Yet no one’s done a dang thing about it and you will lose those good people because they will go to another organization where they are rewarded for doing

00:17:27

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a lotta work and for being one of the good guys, not just given the same pay. The same benefits the same rewards at somebody who’s not put now in carrying their fair share.

00:17:39

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One hundred percent love it. So you know we talk for some challenges. What’s the what’s, a aid of memory that sticks out were ii, yo you’re, proud of something you’ve done as a leader, either to help your people help your organization that really sticks out your mind ago. Yes, you wanna, maybe

00:17:59

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feel good when I saw when, when this went down on june some lessons behind that experience, so it’s got to be for me my time when I was training, I had the privilege of training other people when I was the commanding officer of the coastguards boot camp

00:18:19

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in cape may new jersey, and I had that job in the mid two thousands and after that I was privileged to command the coastguard academy. I did that from two thousand eleven two thousand and fifteen, and I was the first woman commander, any of the us armed forces service academies, but having young

00:18:39

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young people. I enlisted people at boot, camp and officer, cadets and officer candidates at the coastguard academy was such a privilege, and I have never been more proud than when I felt like. I am a parent

00:18:54

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when you had a hundred recruits. Having spent seven and a half weeks at boot. Camp coming in as civilians from all walks of life end is every stage of readiness are, are not readiness and they come in, and eight earth put into teams. They don’t get to pick their teeth

00:19:14

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teams, their company they are put in there and they have to learn to adapt, be agile and anticipate what’s coming next, so I call those like the three a’s adapt, the agile and anticipate, and they have to learn how to work together. They have to learn how to build trust and earn respect

00:19:34

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and there’s a huge diversity of people. They are not just diversity of skin color is skin deep diversity. There’s people with different experiences, who did things differently?

00:19:46

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There’s people with different personalities, introverts extroverts, sir?

00:19:50

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Oh, these kinds of vile own, unique qualities of people rang, and they have to work together and form. As a team- and they have to become a hundred individuals in into one team by the time they graduate and seven and a half weeks and it is remarkable to stay in their watch. These young recruits

00:20:11

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arch, smartly, with a band playing onto the parade field where they are gonna, be

00:20:19

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graduated as far as semen, environment and in the united states coast guard and their parents are watching, and the parents sometimes that, if a recognize the kid they are like, who are you? And what did you do? My son or daughter is so proud as a proud moment for all of us who trains, the young people and for all the parents, and so that cried

00:20:40

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in a shared purpose. Bringing people together to serve was shared core values to execute a shared purpose which is getting through boot camp, but also the coastguard. You know executing the coastguard missions that creates a pride in a unity of purpose and right now in our

00:20:59

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getty everything’s divided people are divided in the camps.

00:21:03

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Well, in the coastguard, in the military, we unite people around shared core values and shared purpose and pride in that, and that is a key to success and I’ve never been more proud than to be part of that operation of building young people into leaders of character

00:21:22

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or something ruby in the training system. The bruce law brought us by four years and our training system.

00:21:28

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I my of martyr and your code in my training center and previous, that I’ve spent seven months embedded with the afghan national army in training and mentoring them sodas, or something above of thrones lot of pride.

00:21:41

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But you talked about how we in the military we take. You take these young people. These new people to show up like is at all kinds of backgrounds. Everyone’s different and indian of the training cycle has turned him into a cohesive unit.

00:21:57

Speaker

Now you are a consultant, and I coached much like myself. I’d like to get your perspective on this.

00:22:04

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Often people will say gray, that’s the military! You guys can do that because you’re very connoisseur discipline and you can turn around and charge people wanna, get a line and do this and do that,

00:22:18

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but were in civilian world. We can’t do these types of things. So what’s your advice to readers out there with are having these difficulties in building cohesive teams, bringing the people together, getting them to buy into the vision tent and not simply, I’m here for nine five check, my paycheck and no cash. No

00:22:39

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hey I’d be lying to you. If I said this is easy ahead,

00:22:44

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but I do think this is why you see military people from whether it’s the canadian armed forces, the us armed forces. You see them going into business and helping coach and train private sector organizations because some of what you learn there is very

00:23:04

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be transferable and there’s a really good book and you alluded to it and now the beginning of year, our conversation here, it’s called extreme ownership by jacko will I can leaf babe in there to retired navy seals who

00:23:24

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wrote is awesome book extreme ownership? Then they go into corporate corporations and help they use stories and examples from when they were leading teams over in the middle east in in combat missions and bring it right back to the boardroom. So it translates, but it is not easy. So what do you have to do?

00:23:45

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You gotta look at what the armed forces do right. So you got a mission.

00:23:51

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You got a vision. You got core values, you gonna create a culture of respect, a workplace culture. So if you don’t get all that right, of course, you’re gonna struggle and even if you’ve got all that right, you’re still gonna struggle with with individuals who aren’t part of that and see themselves as an exception, and you got

00:24:11

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don’t really find those people who aren’t interested in being part of the team and bring them into the team if possible and if not, quite frankly, move them out of the team and in the civilian world that can be easier than in the military depends on where you are, but you shouldn’t term, there’s, there’s a

00:24:31

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lotta tools for for helping everybody to find their place and purpose. So here’s what I would say everybody’s different say you have twenty employees and I don’t care what they look like with skin color or gender they’re, going to be different in their motivation in the way they think and their experiences and what they like and what they don’t like and how they work

00:24:51

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est susceptible work, best quietly in a closed little cubicle, others were best in a great big team battle banning bettering ideas around well. If you put somebody has an introvert he’s quiet who wants to develop a software program in in by themselves in a room they’re not going to do well in an open

00:25:12

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space environment with a bunch of other people, and there would be unhappy, maybe they’re your problem person. Maybe it’s because you haven’t looked at what kind of environment in leadership they need to achieve their full potential. So, quite frankly, a later today has to work a lot harder. You can’t treat everybody the same. You have to look at where

00:25:32

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people have strengths and weaknesses where there where they like to be, and you have to try to form your teams and form your your work. Environment, so that you can capture everybody’s full potential and that’s hard, but you gotta start with the purpose, a mission, division and then looking at everybody on

00:25:52

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the team, a good way to do that start out with a personality assessment for everybody in the different teams at iran and it’s wheeze, one called the disc at the coat in the coastguard. Training commands I quite frankly, I’m sorry, I don’t care what d I a c stands for, but it’s a team based personality assessment and people me

00:26:12

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he’s when they get their results back and and look at the qualities of their teammates, and they can say, oh well, no wonder I always thought this person was trying to get at something. It’s just that they’ve got a different personality in and they were turned off when we said that so they look at they weren’t interested. But so I would recommend a personal assessment

00:26:32

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and team building along those lines so that people do have shared core values in in a shared unity towards the mission and purpose

00:26:42

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jatropha watergate of device. And honestly, I think that’s the the thing that really brings military hurry teams together quickly

00:26:52

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is that shirt mission and vision right. We we merely everyone instantly, has that shared mission wrote up this platoon us troop ship aircraft. Whatever have you have that mission and everyone’s, oh okay, this is our mission right now

00:27:09

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and I find the units that have the most difficulty are those where admissions bit vague, ambiguous word has been really articulate well to the members and therefore they’re kind of struggling with it

00:27:24

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or they question the mission, because the commander or the leader, the ceo, has clearly conveyed the mission and why it’s important, because it’s easy for you and I in the military, because in the coastguard, were saving lives or whatever we’re doing and in the army or doing whatever you’re doing when you’re in a corporate

00:27:44

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environment can be harder to get your hands around a mission that resonates down to the lowest levels. So you have to have everybody from the highest position. The senior vp vice president’s all the way down to the lowest new employees need to understand the mission where they fit in, where they

00:28:04

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add value in a good boss, is gonna, go around to this quiet, junior people and catch them doing something right and commend them in front of people. Hey lisa!

00:28:18

Speaker

You really worked hard behind the scenes for a month on this project, and you know what you were key to making it happen. Even if lisa was a small cog in a small piece of the of the effort, she might not get much recognition, and here is the boss now calling her out on my goodness you’ve just made her day. Any wwe also

00:28:38

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inspired other people, because they know the boss look in in the corners for the people who were really put not behind the scenes. Everyone feels valued up that chain of command and you’re all united, because otherwise it’s just easier say well heck. We should all unite behind a common purpose. It’s hard, I’m trying to give a few hints that not leaders

00:28:58

Speaker

can use to peel back and get at the heart of being a good leader and it’s management by walking around age all we call it on deck plate leadership and that and the sea services, because you get out new walk in a deck plate of the ship’s, see what’s going on, I’m in the interim mountain on top side and and check out

00:29:18

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be present for your people

00:29:22

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also say the shore enjoy and hate the most is undercover boss,

00:29:27

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because I enjoy goes it’s interesting, but I hated because like why does it take a tv show for you to go visit your franchise swapping come on reality show I feel the same way right over. All of your old people in our space feels very similar to us right,

00:29:45

Speaker

our just a quick read the boomerang back to this that stands for dominance, influence, steadiness and conscientiousness there we go for photo listener. I was there, it is in the show notes, and you can always check the show notes out at moving for leadership dot com for slash one, nine, zero, one. Nine

00:30:06

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t,

00:30:07

Speaker

but as wanna throw that out there for people cause. I was interested for some actually hear of this one I’ve I’ve heard of some of the spectrum myers briggs, because your mouth began with disc, which is a new one me on my google check this one out

00:30:20

Speaker

think we have to go check out them, try to figure what my style is now just because I am a bit of a geek like that.

00:30:28

Speaker

So we’re talking ill of a casting our vision, machine building, cohesive teams, moving those yardsticks forward, and we were talking a bit. You kind of hinted a bit at in readers when we get stuck in happens to the best of us. Sometimes we just

00:30:46

Speaker

it’s stocker, like I don’t know, what’s right decision must wrong decision. What should I do here?

00:30:53

Speaker

What’s your best advice at their fertile leaders? Listening when you find yourself in that situation, where your stock, your universe percent, sure, where to go, and I’m not a big quote guy but I’ll focus. My ass colon powell says the on the top. Is the loneliest place?

00:31:11

Speaker

How do you not be so lonely?

00:31:14

Speaker

Had he not be so lonely well am, I think,

00:31:20

Speaker

lead, follow or get out of the way. It’s always been with me

00:31:24

Speaker

when I was a junior or a younger person, man I used to hate working for bosses. You couldn’t make a decision, emily,

00:31:32

Speaker

there’s no perfect decisions out there, so I have a lot a little vignettes over time, because I’ve been so irritated by this. I lead, follow or get out wage and then there’s one by m m general patton is ago.

00:31:46

Speaker

An okay decision made today is far superior than a perfect decision made next week when, when it’s too late,

00:31:54

Speaker

so big decision, so leaders need to make decisions and it is hard- and I remember, standing on the bridge of a ship in a really bad weather way out in the middle of the atlantic ocean.

00:32:06

Speaker

Any id love to have somebody to ask what to do you’re, very lonely, and they say that when you’re in command- and you look over your shoulder- there’s nobody there to ask. So quite frankly, when I looked over my shoulder, there is god for me: I’m a person of faith, but it’s lonely. So I thank god

00:32:27

Speaker

being in tune with your own spirituality, is important so that you have that confidence that you don’t need to have when you don’t have anyone to speak with. You have the strength to look inward for that

00:32:46

Speaker

um

00:32:47

Speaker

gumption, that it takes to make that decision, and I have our little bit of a ditty about decision making and I’ve seen a lot of people that get stuck at the executive level. Not I’m able to make a decision, and I I call it the m paralysis by that by analysis. Their latest need more information. I’m gonna be pair

00:33:07

Speaker

realising this decision till I get more more more and they want hundred percent of the information before they can make a decision. Nope. You just have to get the eighty five percent solution and do it or you’ll just be everybody would go crazy below you. So that’s the paralysis by analysis, there’s the yam consensus, conundrum or you’re not going to make a decision because one

00:33:27

Speaker

the person disagrees, and you want everybody to be happy and agree with. The decisions are tough at the executive level. You’re, never gonna, please everybody and have a decision that everybody cheers and so the consensus, conundrum

00:33:41

Speaker

god that happen and then there’s the being nice syndrome. You don’t want to make the decision, because somebody is gonna, be adversely impacted, yeah, that’s life when you make a tough decision, executive level, yeah, there’s going to be winners and losers, proverbial winners and losers, and you have to make those decisions.

00:34:01

Speaker

So I always warn people in these are all in my in my book and now. You’ve got that in your show notes, but three young man problems blocks for decision making. So you have to have the confidence in yourself goes back to my thing, about believing in yourself looking inward to your center and having the confidence to

00:34:21

Speaker

make those decisions and understanding that you owe it to the people you’re, leading to make those decisions and not sit on them until everybody’s frustrated,

00:34:32

Speaker

nom, you’re, absolutely right.

00:34:34

Speaker

I’ve, coach, many people through decision making, process and you’re right. Eighty five percent solutions better now is a better better than a hundred percent solution to great pride and a lot of people. I find it hung up like well make the decision, and I realize that it’s wrong. I can’t go back and change on a mile. Why not delay

00:34:54

Speaker

volcker’s, then I lose face like now: you’re, actually faced with a whole new decision, a whole new scenario like what do you mean and my you have the information you have right now to make the best decision possible

00:35:05

Speaker

you make that decision and then suddenly new information comes out. It comes to the forefront you’re in a new scenario, you’re making another decision, so you can go ahead and change. Research is altering the course young cracking the ship. If you like you as navigator, your ship and saying, okay, let’s settle on from from york, amazon,

00:35:25

Speaker

igor araujo all the way down to florida

00:35:29

Speaker

today or near pick six or florida down to miami and go are a set, the hiding and never course practise. I’m pretty sure, gonna hit a rock or two before along that course. If you make those minor adjustments right, you make those minor adjustments along that journey, because why there’s new reformation like up there so there’s area,

00:35:49

Speaker

there’s a big island in front of us couple miles away.

00:35:53

Speaker

Hell: let’s go round:

00:35:57

Speaker

it’s not gonna, it’s annual comedy it’s common sense, but yet, at the same time, people don’t realize that it actually is common sense, and you get sucked into this. I can’t lose face. A captain seemed like three incompetent, like no you’re, actually doing the inverse you’re showing confidence, because you’re making

00:36:15

Speaker

decisions based off of information. That is in front of you and I have good so far, say even be transparent about so people know how company you’re absolutely

00:36:29

Speaker

so now love love. This comes as it feels good to be back in the seat behind a microphone been away since the end of june, so feels good to be here. Sandy of you know, I wanna have a couple last last spots with you as we solar, wind and show here wouldn’t thing which was to me. Like you talk me,

00:36:49

Speaker

unique show about e b being the third class of leave of the academy with with females and I’d, be remiss not to get your point of view and perspective on on there being a female leader going off through those those challenging times. I’d assume now, I’m a young male here. I’ve no idea, but

00:37:09

Speaker

they think your perspective on and in fertile from female leaders of those videos or any female leader advice. You would have four of them, so they can go yo. I got this because you’re ugly, I have a lot of respect for female leaders out there. Some of my best bosses have been females, so my best coworkers have been females.

00:37:30

Speaker

It is, I don’t believe me, I don’t look at people and go male female race. Any of his stuff like yours is a member of the team just like I am so, but an lottery, whether don’t have any experience and don’t have that mentality. So um want your advice for the females out there and how they can navigate the seas and be the best booger of their paws

00:37:49

Speaker

civil. Absolutely and that’s sad part of the reason

00:37:55

Speaker

the title of my book is breaking has written last, leading in uncharted waters. We all have this uncharted waters, and I had a lot of them being the first woman this or that, but I will say that goes back to childhood, which I think is really important, because it’s where your character and four values are started formed. I was raised with three brothers, so

00:38:15

Speaker

so it wasn’t unusual for me to be in an atmosphere or our situation with mostly man, and I do think that matter. So I am very I’m aware that when I talk about this, I have an advantage because I was raised with three boys when they had all their friends over. I was playing football

00:38:35

Speaker

flag, football with the kids and the boys in the neighborhood mostly, and I was a tomboy so that matters but am so my perspective, is when I got into environments where it was mostly man. I already knew what that was like, so I guess who encourage women to to look at

00:38:55

Speaker

that being different as a power, not a

00:39:02

Speaker

ma’am, not some that pulls you down. So if you look at it as being different as you can, you can understand the situation so we’ve had men in your life, you’ve had a father, and so you kind of know a little bit about how men think maybe in and operate then, if you’re, the only woman in that group use that as a pow

00:39:22

Speaker

power so take the initiative to break the ice so to speak. I did a lot of breaking the ice figurative, not just ramming ice breakers into the ice, so on be the one who helps men in a workplace understand what it’s like to have a woman, and now I was the first woman on a number of my ships, and I remember saying to the

00:39:42

Speaker

guys: hey am because they beheld hesitated. What do we do this? We got a woman on board now and I hate you have sisters, brothers and sisters and moms in and aunts, and all that, don’t you guys enemy. Well, yes, ma’am, I’m like well, it’s no different, you know we’re just doing our jobs,

00:40:02

Speaker

so I think women who want to succeed don’t sit back and wait for someone to reach their hand out and pull you up. Yeah. Should that happen, sure really good leaders are going to be inclusive and they’re gonna be looking for the people. They want to reach a hand out to impose a man. The only woman in the group, a good leader is gonna, make them feel included, invited to the table,

00:40:23

Speaker

wait for the invitation. You might be waiting forever and you might get bitter and disappointed use your power of being their friend to speak up and walked to the table and take your seat and put the guys at ease.

00:40:37

Speaker

Make them feel comfortable having a woman in the group, and I found that to be a very

00:40:43

Speaker

strong tool to use, but it came from learning how to believe in myself, scone back to john wayne, with six guns hot up and coming to peace, with the fact that I wasn’t john wayne in realizing that sandy stoves was as powerful leader is john wayne in her own right,

00:41:03

Speaker

and that when I was in a room with all man, I was gonna, be the one who put them at ease and help them understand how to work. In this diverse situation. Instead of sitting there waiting to be served, I was willing to get up and and serve others, and that goes a long way towards fitting in

00:41:23

Speaker

what a great way to wrap this whole conversation of starwood, john wayne and finish were john wayne has been fantastic. Savvy are thoroughly enjoyed this conversation with you, but virtually all good things come to an end and a d one respectful of your time. Ah, but before we hit stop on our karma

00:41:42

Speaker

to got a couple of questions, for you

00:41:45

Speaker

am first question being crushed us all: the guests here to people forced which podcast and as for new standards, those what makes a great leader

00:41:55

Speaker

core values. You gotta have strong personal core values that align with your organizational core values, and if you don’t have that, you don’t have anything, and I think one of the most important core values is humility.

00:42:12

Speaker

Kern said it better myself and the final thing is: how can people find you hug me follow you be part of your journey? It’s all, but you know. Oh thank you. Well when I left the coastguard. After forty years in the uniform, I wrote a book to give back the leadership. Lessons learned some of what you heard tonight. I

00:42:31

Speaker

thought man. The coastguard has given me a chance to move from a shy young girl to a confident woman who could achieve my full potential sovereigns this book. It’s our lessons based on stories of my career. It’s called breaking ice and breaking glass leading in uncharted waters. You can get it at any bookstore. Is so weird

00:42:51

Speaker

a traditional, independent publisher, you can also find me at debbie, debbie debbie, that sandra stoves all one word dot com and on that website you can find my weekly blog leading with character, and I got a lesson every week that’s published on that blog. So please take a look and become the leader. You’re meant to be

00:43:11

Speaker

and easy for years always lister. It’s all at the show notes, feel free to go to movie for lucia dot com for sauce, one nine zero one. Ninety fannie again it’s been a pleasure. Ma’am has been an honor. It’s it’s great. I guess I could say you now are the highest ranking member to ever come on this podcast as a former military

00:43:31

Speaker

gus anchor and serving us. So congratulations well done you! Thank you for having me scott has been my honor. I love giving back

00:43:42

Speaker

right.

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