How to Increase Productivity | Tim Ringo | Episode 164

Tim welcome to the show has sobered heavier pleasure, thanks for having me on skype, so we’re talking today about human resources and bringing people on, and you know how we actually take care of our organization from the heater standpoint. So you talk about solving the productivity,

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the puzzle, so why don’t we kick off with you know, really the wild west? The framework here from that standpoint of how do we go about solving that puzzle in the first place or was even a puzzle? I guess in the first one is yeah, probably best to start their there. Well, it’s it’s really been since the the two thousand and eight

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financial crash.

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You know it’s really been nearly twelve years now, where we’ve seen steadily declining people, productivity

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and even the economy eventually recovered and new technology has come along, and now we have a pandemic has come along in a for. Ten years has been ten to twelve years, depending how you count. It has been the longest period and measured economic history of stagnating or declining people, productivity, it’s everywhere in the world. It’s not just you know. A western dang are now

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north american thing or a european thing. It’s everywhere has this issue, and yes, I was fascinated when I read a paper by the oecd in two thousand eighteen. That essentially said this is such a problem that we’re gonna see out two twenty sixty a fifty years on from from now forty years on from now we’re gonna see

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that people productivity problem having significant crush on gdp, which means that out in the future, you know living standards should be less than they are today and they were very pessimistic about it. They should look. Organizations are aligning people to technology organizations, aren’t investing in redoing, their processes, take advantage of technology and law,

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say they’re, not they’re, not flattening out the organizations, they’re they’re, sticking to old, inept industrial age organization structures and, to some extent that’s true, but you know I actually see organizations are are starting to try to fix he same and they’re, just assuming that that’s gonna be the case going out fifty years. So I thought right, I think, that’s

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too pessimistic.

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I sat down to look at at the problem and and came up with a framework based on what I’ve seen you know, companies and even governments do to to address this problem, just sort of contradict the the the what the economists say

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and so yeah that’s where the book started and I created a framework around it. I can talk a lot about dies while for that sort of the nexus of it, but it’s a serious problem in a part of it is we’re not measuring productivity properly, but pretty it’s still in other things. Oecd oecd outlined are are actual problems, they do exist and we need to fix them, guess or so

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so, let’s, let’s dive in there was cool with deeper. What’s at one zero sum these problems and specifically, and then let’s dive into how? How do we go about fixing them because his readers out there part of these stuff? My key because you need to have a productive and unproductive organization. Your team needs be productive in order to know hit the bottom line

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regardless a day have that readers may be wanting to connect with the people they want to inspire and motivate them all this great stuff, and they businesses need make money after don’t make money. While then

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they can’t exist. So how do we go about finding out what exactly these problems are and and how do we dive into fixing them?

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So the number one thing was to look at the definition of productivity,

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and you know when I, when I did, I immediately saw in a part of the problem, the other the other party already touched on, which is it is about leadership, so the changes that are required to fix this problem are not that difficult. We have done them before in the past and it really is about leaders, changing mindset and then change in the mindset of the organization. So leadership is at the heart attack

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as an extra day that about execution so close start with the definition cassettes the first. The first thing that problem I ran into so you know when I looked at m me, I thought why, but it just look up. You know that the actual definition of of of productivity, because you know to to be honest, even I’ve- got a finance degree and I’ve studied lots of vr yeah economics

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yeah. I am you know I I had not. I recalled what it what it what it was, but essentially, when I, when I looked at you know the definition it essentially sad and I’ll, just quote it was various measures of the efficiency of production, a productivity measures expressed as the ratio of output inputs used in a product production process. I eat

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the output per unit of input, so that’s very nineteenth century industrial age right there is people on farms or in factories producing something so right away. I saw that that’s a problem because at two hundred years old, because the vast majority of people you know work at it, work at network in an office his days or work at home as it is, you know very few. It’s less than

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thirty percent work in factories are such as didn’t work, so I came up with a different definition, and I I it it’s it’s in the book in it’s, it’s the following.

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Getting stuff done. Measurably improves the economic and human interest of organizations in society at large, so it broadens it into kind of a three dimensional view. Rather this will mean this one dimension, just based completely on widgets and value, there’s other pieces to it. So what I’ve seen? What works and in organizations to kind of fix? This is when you say op

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see, you know you have to focus on the fiscal side, the dead inputs and outputs and how much those are worth yeah, even the vienna, the communist chinese or cap policy states right. So that’s important, but there’s two other pieces. There’s there’s there’s that the second, which is creating a workplace stress that it’s purpose, driven right at that people are there because they wanna be and they buy

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in to to what it is, and it creates what we call engagement right. So an engaged workforce is highly motivated and highly productive. So will you create a work place that allows employers to flourish and buy into what you do? Then? You create engagement, and I can be measured these days. You know down to the dollars and cents of what that’s worth and this this you know this is a

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big part of the leadership at this is what leaders need to do is drive engagement, great workplaces, that that in a good pupil, operative floors and an ear, not surprising what comes out of that is innovation. People have the time the inclination, the head space of setbacks, say well, hang on a minute. Should we do things differently or you know, should we invent new products and services that people might

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one answer you get that engaged workforce and people all bought into what you do they? They create innovation, so who’s gonna, three pieces to others up the value bet, but there is driving engagement, which is what leaders should do, which then produces innovation, which guess what loops back around to value again. So a crisis kind of fly wheel of you get more engagement, you get more innovation, you get more about

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yeah, and for me that is getting stuff done. Yet measurably improves the economic and human interest of organizations in at society at large. That is, you know. What I think is a new definitions are just just positive. Have any questions before take that little further,

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I love. I love the the leadership role in the whole explanation. That leaders are required to basically provide the space for other people to think outside the box to have building to feel more motivated, feel engage with their with their supervisor, with their leader, you’ll feel, can

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actor with them which drives engagement, was drives. Innovation. Is it’s a great circle cycle at even be I talk about my definition of leadership. Even I can see how it it just fits on top right there, the really overlap, and, unfortunately that can go the opposite direction too. You could spend that in wrong when drive innovation down. If you don’t

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yeah that space and provide a exactly yoga, provide that sense of psychological safety to your team if they don’t feel like they’re safe enough to bring up this great new idea are great examples when, when the guy who invented the first digital camera, walked into the boardroom, a kodak say: hey, look at this and everyone laughed at on the room we go there. We were

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in the business of selling film here well, but record. I get out

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yeah exactly yeah and end, but yeah it’s it’s spot on. So just just kind of build on that say right! It’s it’s! The leader having the mindset of the lonely crane the space, but you have to create confidence because that’s what you were touching on there. You have to be confident in yourself as a leader to then be confident in your people to leave them to get on with things. One of the things I learned early on in my career

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when I was at accenture, was in my teens, I say: look on on the player coach, I’m here to to help you succeed, I’m not here to tell you which do I give you the objectives of the project, but it’s for you to execute, organize yourselves to execute on and keep this this quite happy, and it just worked a treat me. I learned that early on, I just give people the space to get and they do their car

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innovation. They find new ways of doing it and guess what you got. A happy client is happy to pay top dollar for your people, and I saw that early on and I’ve. I’ve cut that now. What I found is us. I moved around a couple of companies like ibm and a happy when I brought that kind of leadership approach into those companies where they were more command control. People were uncomfortable at first

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like wang on your spouse. To tell me what to do it right now, I’m here to give you your objectives and coach you to high performance, and what I had to do is help people kind of step by step. Build that confidence at the even do it. You don’t need me to be telling you what to do and again you outta you just created higher engagement by dennis was kind of just accidental ready that I said I ran into this, but

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I’m unconvinced that people, if you give them the space they will engage, they will innovate. They will create value.

00:09:35

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No, I love it and had a former guest on the show named him clark any reference to those the four stages, psychological safety naive in the the people, to the point where they can come, and I abu this stage three of her afterthought, my head, where they they feel confident enough to come and provide you with you, an idea without feeling

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thinking, they’re gonna end up being ridiculed or something along those line, so yeah, but as a leader, you also have to be able to spot the people who are not you’re not performing. Who are not getting on and and no you know that, there’s an intervention, then you have to go, be firm and you have to help them might so you can just sit back and say: hey you guys on your own, it isn’t isn’t, were I thought you have to. You know how

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people will run into roadblocks and you have to be there to help them skip passes us of a high level framework and then what I did is I broke that down even further. We’re said, you know what I’ve seen work is when you’ve got that mindset. You’ve got that new definition of productivity. When you then work inside the organization to create a mindset, processing technology,

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do they get the following right: people in the right place at the right time with the right skills and the right motivation when, when you have others as a kind of company policy- and you have the processes and technology to make that happen, guess what yeah that’s a great place to work and it’s highly efficient, highly effective. So there’s a there’s, an element of this says

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you you, you also need to do proper planning, strategic workforce planning to get right. People right place right. You know right skills right time, my motivation and so does talk a lie based on tech down the book and civil right. What other companies do that

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and it isn’t difficult? You know it it it’s a pretty straightforward framework and and what employer doesn’t want to work, an organization that at least attempts to do that right. It isn’t gonna hundred percent, get you in the right place at the right time all the time, but it is a principle. That’s that’s how you work and most the time or right. So you know that’s the thing that that I’ve got

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put forward to say: well, that’s what you need to drive as a leader that change in the organization it isn’t kind of well over here we’ve got learning over here. We’ve got recruitment over here with the other pieces everywhere site know this is an integrated approach from bringing people into the dino and then getting them in the right place right time. All the way, through to the day they leave you right

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and that’s really what works at the idea.

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No mile, I, like the part of both getting the very people in the right place at the right time and often hear the stories of oh. That person wasn’t a great fit

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in, but they’re like well. Did you try them elsewhere in the organization did? Did you hear exactly? Did you give them an opportunity to try a different job? Did you know, provide the training the fixed that delta between what is that the coming season? Skill sets that they had be here

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mean the ones that you’re expecting. Did you go through all these different things in ago? Well now he ordered visual, just under gravity and let them go. So how are you, how does that affect productivity within the teams and organizations, because it’s gotta be huge huge bit, though it’s huge absolutely. This is why acid,

00:12:48

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as a leader, you’re job, is to understand your workforce, your team, but also each one of them, is individual. So what I always tried to do in order to gauge how I would cope somebody is. I would get to know them as a person you know, go out for a coffee understand what makes them tick. I want to know what motivates some at work and what motivates them at home to the extent that they want to share that

00:13:09

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right, but usually they do they. The two things are late and and ass really important, then, to understanding how you build a team because of you know how all these different people are motivated. They’ll have different motivations, you can get the right pieces in the right place, but but secondly, you have to encourage them all to understand what each other motivated about right, which then nina further helps,

00:13:29

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isn’t all just about the leader getting the right people in the right place to buy everybody. You know doing this, and part of that is understand, people’s motivations. Why are you here? A while you get up in the morning to come? Work with me come work in this organization. Now, if the answer is well, you know I kind of really don’t like it here and yeah. I don’t see anything here, this ret walkie than than we novice. You need to be moved on, but

00:13:49

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it’s a great point because when I joined anderson consulting which became accenture john anderson, nineteen, ninety the main job they had back, then you take about a university teach. How to program. Computers in cobol are high, and I was the world’s worst programmer writes for two years I designed and programmed software, and I really didn’t like it, and I thought my god. I met a

00:14:09

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huge mistake right, but then they created it the sinkhole change management practice, which is all about aligning people to technology. I said thats for me by and I just went to the partner and said: look this. I’m never gonna get this programming stuff, I brained a smartass. Can I go do that over there cause that looks interesting and then that’s where I started on the whole people journeying in at night tonight

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to start working and change management. So you know and anderson was that kind of place. Is it worth you don’t fit here will will find some other place rewrite and that’s what really good organizations do? Good leaders recognize a I’ll help you get to the top practice over they’ll, introduce you to the partner whatever tool. You know. That’s a really good point you make

00:14:47

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know for sure. Now, one of these you often you actually talk with roll pins interesting, it came it just kind of came up. There is a technology in the use of technology. Now we’ve talked about the hindrance of a, but is there ways that we can leverage technology in our approach towards engagement towards productivity

00:15:08

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so that we can have a highly productive team, highly productive organization and yeah? I’m a I’m, a big fan of technology minutes. Why joined anderson yeah? Ninety nine, because I could see that’s kind of where the future was going. We forget it. I told my son una back in nineteen. Ninety, when I joined, were we don’t have a computer, we didn’t have powerpoint, we can have anything they could see where I was going and although I was a really bad

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bad programmer, I’ve always been interested in technology. I think it’s really powerful and so I’ve always worked in technology companies, accenture and then ibm and then a safety because I love it, but I’ve always wanted to be on the side a bit about how do we align people to it and that’s kind of where I’ve learned an end seen the most and and so for me technology an end.

00:15:47

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You know my colleagues who you know sometimes like this didn’t like it, but I would say: look technologies, the third thing on the list that you should do when you’re trying to change organization. The first is, as I said, change the mindset. Second, have a plan for in a higher gonna implement the change. Third, the technology is, it becomes enabler by it’s the thing. It should be the tools and the good

00:16:08

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news has the tools get easier and easier and more powerful and more powerful. That’s the thing that once you’ve got those other things in place, you can then use to turbo charge, and this is what I talk about in in the book. So I call the right people right place right time. My skills rivalry. I called up p ip people, engagement, innovation in performance and embrace. You can take

00:16:28

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the vip and multiply it times this, these new emerging technologies, a I and other things, and I think you get something we’ve never had before you get augmented humans. I know it sounds a bit scary, but you’re essentially getting tools. This is what’s coming that are gonna. Make people better work, though not can replace them. They’re gonna make them better,

00:16:47

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and this is really exciting life, but it is a it can’t be where everything’s about organizations are full of people. Not technology technology should be the tool.

00:16:58

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No, I love burden of them. Fine people look at technology is always the solution is the solution zero grown now is not. The solution is just the tool of the solution to whatever problem you’re trying exactly too often too often, if I organizations they’re trying like okay, what does bring us peace,

00:17:17

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software and everything will be right right. Well, no yeah,

00:17:23

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they all how to use it. How do you employ do need to really do people need training for

00:17:29

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yeah? What is replacing? Where are you getting rid of? It or aegis, adding redundancy and cause how many times have I seen technology come in even in my day job. Ah god,

00:17:41

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a great example with just whatever reason, k army loves, excel spreadsheet. Hefner like yoga is like hey here’s a problem. Are it will make an excel spreadsheet death, but we have these these various pieces of software that is built in house for us the offer he germans rare example where I can go in and check to see when people are on holiday seasons

00:18:01

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stuff like this or when it were their task. Yet

00:18:04

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how many times have I come across excel spreadsheets. Do an exact same here

00:18:08

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yeah, it’s like okay! So there’s a failure. Failure there is properly implement. There is a techno, then yeah and I murderer. When I commanded, I kind of squadron of two hundred members, and I I told a memo telling iran- I if I find an excel spreadsheet, that does something that this software dies. It’s

00:18:28

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going to jump, because at that point the training has been egg. We did everything that record is just now that culture shift in that mindset shift okay leave excel. Let’s use useless and typically pays yeah exactly and people typically, the reason they’ll do that spreadsheet thing is because they been presented with a tool that doesn’t isn’t fit for me.

00:18:48

Speaker

Purpose doesn’t make them better, right and and and and very often is technology that has been built for the for the I t engineer, not for the user and password changing state. You start hearing now about employee experience that employ experiences. You know it’s the office and all that kind of stuff, but more more. It’s about the tools you use, you’re, going to see more voice generate,

00:19:08

Speaker

did that you’re gonna see more talking to hr systems and in fact, I think in five years time the the whole idea of hr system all disappeared. You won’t hear that anymore. It’s gonna, be your own personal assistant that helps you manage your team. You know bob has put in your notice. Come up on your alexa, I’m probably just gonna wake my not now,

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but it will come in and say: hey bob’s asked for em

00:19:31

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a couple of weeks off on these dates. Is it okay to approve yeah alex? Please prove that yeah and an annual see those kind of things that are coming, and it just makes you better at your job. You have to go to the computer click through for screens or go to your spreadsheet. You just did it over voice commander with your watching a talk to your watch or whatever less was coming,

00:19:50

Speaker

so are reformers, support versus you know a tool you have to go in an open, and you know that sort of thing right, lol, lol notification from your app on your phone yeah, swipe down, had approved done exactly wing onto moving onto the next thing, which I personally I would be all for. Honestly, whatever makes my life easier as a leader

00:20:10

Speaker

as a supervisor of my team that air, if it makes it easier yes, I am therefore damn no getting away from all these old school uses. Oil

00:20:22

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nature is radio signing putting it in processing it bite of hr clerk and and finally pops up the juices home, and you get paid paper paperback, my my god, like heat airlines, will to live on the guy in it while it sucks dry what the worst part is it sucks the time because now you

00:20:42

Speaker

set aside like I was set aside at least thirty to forty five minutes of my day eat when I was a squatter commander when I committed to an people for all this money, monotonous, paperwork, dioxide, excitedly down completely not value added right is just you know. This is the hour it’s it’s, it is. It is what it is.

00:21:02

Speaker

It’s in part of governance and all this deal policies all the stuff that stuff it had to get done by. The same point is like: can we not make it easier said? I don’t have to spend about five hours a week at an top of that, my people, so it behind me. Oh damn prepping it my I second in command, reviewing it to make sure there aren’t any mistakes, be

00:21:22

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ford came into me and all this other stuff so yeah. I definitely definitely a huge fan of technology that enables us to do things better, quicker, easier faster. So we can actually get on with what matters get to back to a question. It’s critical. I think technology is critical, became more and more important. The problem is,

00:21:43

Speaker

you know, whoa there. Just is too much technology for the I t engineer and not for the human, but there’s a big sea change in that coming now

00:21:52

Speaker

and that is gonna help solve the productivity puzzle rather than systems for system sakes. You’re gonna have you know tools? Actually I’m you know that step in and do that stuff for you, because it the system knows you yeah, you could see a system riding people’s performance objectives for them and then yeah you have to do is just gonna review it and had a click and nina there. It’s done right

00:22:12

Speaker

so yeah, that’s that’s! The sort of things are becoming

00:22:16

Speaker

awesome mountains. Do we foresee, do you foresee, like auburn,

00:22:22

Speaker

quote, unquote efficiencies coming in the heaters realm or is, and but I mean downsizing obsolete,

00:22:31

Speaker

but or is it now it does not? Rome have to kind of pivot in shift or or actually it’s a great unable to focus better than on grape crush of matter. Yeah yeah, because I get this crush. I do a lot of workshops with with hr people may get really concerned. When I talk about some of these things about what these tools are, gonna do, but but what I ate in a spend time,

00:22:50

Speaker

I’m in the workshop showing them is at your job, is not going away. It’s gonna change, it’s gonna, get it’s gonna, get more interesting and you’re gonna do more interesting things in the future. The technology’s gonna do all that admin stuff that you and your managers you shop today and now you can actually sit down and work with. You know you can work on the fun stuff, getting right. People

00:23:10

Speaker

right place right, skills right time, right, motivation, that’s what their job is, gonna, be more about, and it’s gonna be less policy and procedures. More about strategic, you know getting the right people in the right place and it won’t be called hr anymore. I don’t know what it’s gonna be called that I think the term human resources is in it’s last decade, if, if not the

00:23:31

Speaker

last five years, and and I don’t have the term for what it’s gonna want- it’s gonna become ah, but they won’t be called hr people in in in the future, because they won’t be doing that cause. They won’t be doing. You know the resources administration, it’s gonna, be all about being making the organization and engaged workplace. That’s that’s what their focus will be,

00:23:51

Speaker

not awesome, actually read currently reading in the book, the talon war ii and having those those those two are on the show in an attic garage accurate, and they really they really focus on you know. Hr needs be focused on finding town and

00:24:11

Speaker

right now, how would go about hiring is just simply okay,

00:24:15

Speaker

yeah d of these skills. Do you not have these could have? What is your experience? What’s not and then oak okay, you checked in you check the most boxers down in vice. Actually, going after and looking in dead and find a talent skill sets that you’re working for not neo debt due to have coding experience or not coding, experience law, but we are,

00:24:35

Speaker

are they motivated? Are they driven and how do they operate with pete? Within teams had do we’ll go get along with others her? How do to make connections all these non, really accessible quality eat, and that really are what makes young leaders and keep senior positions new people in those positions,

00:24:55

Speaker

the effect of the out. So I think that kubiak dec potentially has a great pivot.

00:25:02

Speaker

Exactly yes, so the pivots coming and unites. I try to call the aka inoculated your job, you’re gonna have a different one at a much more interesting one and that’s what technology has done throughout history. Of course, sometimes technology does replace people, but we’re actually in an inflection point right now. We’re gonna see technologies, more augmenting people than replacing people, and that’s that’s a good place to be

00:25:23

Speaker

not for sure a love it

00:25:26

Speaker

and

00:25:27

Speaker

completely agree really got. Despite when technology route, I find when technology eliminate your essentially eliminates jobs. It creates as well at the same time, yeah isn’t known. Yet when I was young, I remember having this conversation. My troops, young for prison, show young song that’s relatively the same age as one of my sons and now she’s, like oh alum sky.

00:25:48

Speaker

I don’t know what kind of jobs and like listen when we were when we were young

00:25:52

Speaker

app development are yo. You mention app development to our parents and they’d they’d scratch your head, look at in america or even webbed of area web development like ass things, get eliminated.

00:26:04

Speaker

Things come up as well all the time so and I think that’s one of the things that we need to be. You are at the forefront as leaders of organizations be aware of these things like okay. Is this something that I actually need, or this is something I want- is esoteric and outsource? How do I may take advantage of it at the right time? All these different thing guess we need to be avail

00:26:24

Speaker

ill are aware of these different trends that are going on yeah exactly and it’s a trend. That’s coming am very strongly in it’s on. The back of a pandemic is, is um is again in the leadership space switches that unconvinced that leaders that showed high e q during the past year

00:26:42

Speaker

are gonna, be the superstar is going forward because people will have seen these were people who could empathize and- and you know, help people through really difficult time and the managers that didn’t have that capability have really struggled, and so people gonna gravitate towards as managers that looked after people

00:27:03

Speaker

during these these tough times in these tough times, gonna go on for another year. Right I mean this is not this isn’t anywhere near over yet, and so it’ll be two years at that point, and I think you’re gonna see you know, people who have hi akira gonna be an end people, others. The question: are you born with that? Keep develope key? I think it’s a bit oppose if you don’t have high in

00:27:23

Speaker

no capability to be empathy empathetic at work, I it you can learn that you can. You can teach yourself that I think that’s a really important thing to try to. If you don’t have that skill, you know, go get some some coaching, because it’s gonna be really important, because I think people are gonna be damaged. I think there’s can be a lotta. You know: post traumatic, bad,

00:27:42

Speaker

munich, post, traumatic stress that people gonna come to work back to the officers eventually and they’re. Not even gonna know how you know how damaged they. They were from being cooped up for a year and a half with screaming kids and things, and I you know, I think this could be a lot of ready, ready lot of people struggling now and even more in the future. So those those theatres that are

00:28:02

Speaker

got about a recognize who’s, really hurting and do something are gonna, be really sought after

00:28:09

Speaker

it’s awesome and hacks us a segway quite nicely something else in the back, my mom as as we exit the pandemic. Ah, hopefully, sooner than later,

00:28:21

Speaker

I’m not sure if all businesses will will remain or go back to the way they were before the pandemic. I think working from home will will potentially

00:28:33

Speaker

still exist, public, not associate the same levels as we see right now. I think a lot of businesses have seen the benefits from it, but at the same time, from this productivity standpoint in human resource management standpoint, how can we ensure, with teams who were in dispute it now across the world working from home?

00:28:53

Speaker

How can we ensure that wondered continuously being productive and how do we get the engagement when we don’t necessarily have their face to face interaction models literally see them on a daily basis, but rather through this computer screen, vs zoom or whatever platform, you use a bitch to get your view out shell out a shower,

00:29:13

Speaker

because I actually retired a year ago, said before the pandemic started. So I haven’t had it. I have they’re managing a team. Through this crisis, I managed teams had the nine eleven crisis, the end, the two thousand and eight crisis and in other stephanie created grey hair and I’m kind of glad. I saw this for the help to be honest, but what I’ve heard from people good to get your view with you,

00:29:33

Speaker

your team is that there’s actually been some really positive developments, cy a lot of managers of feeling a lot more comfortable, letting people just get on with work, because they can’t be there with them all the time that this idea present terrorism

00:29:47

Speaker

in others. There some thought- and I’m kind of in that can’t this says that you know this. This some forced working away from the office is actually gonna, be the death of presentation.

00:29:58

Speaker

That’s gonna, be the it’s gonna, see that’s a revolution and flexible working behind this come in one of the things that people been studying for one in canada action. The government is lead on this quite a bit, which is why we work five days a week. I couldn’t be three

00:30:13

Speaker

reno why we have a because there’s their studies that show humans are most productive between said a tenant for adnan and sort of sixty eight, something like that six to ten up, but we don’t work that way. We come to work at seven. The hurt him he worked, a young widow were not necessarily working when, when our brains are the most productive, you know and what we found in this lockdown

00:30:33

Speaker

or ended up working kind of when they were most productive and people discovered new ways, work and I think that’s gonna really plan to the workplace quite dramatically. I totally agree. I don’t think people are gonna all just work from home. Now I think loads people are dying to get back to the office, but you’re still, I think, you’ll start to see people who work from home, maybe one or two days a week, because they want to have the

00:30:53

Speaker

that flexible working right and I think you’re gonna see managers used to be uncomfortable and yeah demanded to have their team. You know in the office whenever they’re either gonna be a lot more comfortable with people not being around we’re gonna see some really positive development. Saying that the the future, the officer can be a complete rethink, workforce well, being there’s gonna, be a complete rethink, your workplace

00:31:14

Speaker

culture. You know what is appropriate: what’s not appropriate

00:31:18

Speaker

lot more flexible working, we’re gonna, see- and this is where I think hr will be coming in in their new role as they pivot tests are gonna, be drivers of this new way of working said. The pandemic has essentially been a an enforced workforce, workplace, social experiment, one the biggest ones ever and I think currency. A lot of positive things come oblivious lately, get your view. They’ll they’ll interview you

00:31:38

Speaker

from epic scott. What what have you seen with your teams of a view? Has it been difficult, or has it been in a good working, a part of what well, as what’s it been like?

00:31:49

Speaker

Well, it’s been. It’s been interesting, so ah be so actor on a backup bird in dress. The points that you, if there are the interesting one being people working when it best suited them, are when they are most effective in ab. Have you ever heard or read the book the power run by a doctor,

00:32:09

Speaker

her bros? I haven’t no

00:32:12

Speaker

now great book. Superfast interesting, blue, dark roadster is a sleep psychologist doctor and he did a huge study through his experience in essentially what the what he came up with was that us humans rear basically have four prototypes. I eat

00:32:31

Speaker

of our circadian rhythm go. So when do you like to be awake? When do we like to eat when winch relay? I exercise always all these different things and he wrote a book

00:32:43

Speaker

called the power went any breaks everyone down, so you go through his website gothard, a test to find out what kind of a what type of prototype you’re there’s wolf bear

00:32:52

Speaker

the wolf bear line and me those are two four and are basically based on your circadian rhythm. So me, I I’m a line I like to be up early. Hence why my play five am working out in even from a simple hit. My work pension at background right, I’m up at five, am and by five fifteen minimum

00:33:12

Speaker

new throwaway trounced, or doing some kind of exercise pure line, one hundred percent pure login.

00:33:20

Speaker

So he breaks it down like that in and that’s how I operate and I found myself how productive I am actually two went through the book and made it a excel him excel has ice. She had good outlines all the different activities that he you a breakdown in the book, and he goes for everything I mean money

00:33:40

Speaker

from was the best time to get up to the best time to go to sleep. Everything in between was the best time to ob

00:33:47

Speaker

have to ask for a raise from your boss and- and you can like figure what their kroner taper is yet and then match it to your hearse

00:33:56

Speaker

in an easily it into the point of being intimate with your spouse like everything’s in there I made excel spreadsheet, highlight all those things and I worked by days based off of that. So for me I go super technical in the morning. Jan then I do my my planning and my meetings in yo.

00:34:16

Speaker

All these other things in the afternoon fit so hard crunching in the morning and all these other things yoga the interactive stuff in the afternoons based off my circadian room. So it is interesting point. So anyone out there ria she deftly ticket book by the way on the resources page for the website. If you go to moving for leadership, dot, com for

00:34:36

Speaker

flash resources and you go under suggest resources, that’s really fun at some super interesting that you mention it. But to answer your question, how have I found it? It’s interesting and difficult for me to answer that and the reason why I say that is being a full time: canadian army officer,

00:34:56

Speaker

sir. We have a culture of that. You need to be at work. He in fact, from if you’re, not at work. You can be charged under the military code of discipline.

00:35:10

Speaker

It is called icons of is it is called iodine without leave ripe, hey. How do you enforce thy type of discipline when home is work and a lot of supervisors out there having a hard time accepting that durden? They don’t know what their people are doing in the area is pre pandemic.

00:35:30

Speaker

Everyone shows up and they are here your tasks for the day where you go, I got nothing for you.

00:35:36

Speaker

Yeah owens is literally sometimes people. They don’t have anything to do in the army, because we’re essentially break break glass, home, break open glass in case of emergency, so guy everyone is busy every single day we got some people just have nothing to do so. It’s really hard for law supervisors to exempt that they don’t have full control over their people.

00:35:56

Speaker

Yeah. I am not of that camp. I am not of that mentality, a more of a new generation where I have no issues with with working from home and work in discreet manner. I would give my subordinate a call of okay. What’s going on beyond gimme back reef, how’s it going okay provide little bit direction. Boom boom are here, are your key outputs go

00:36:17

Speaker

because any day, the only thing I care about as a supervisor for work standpoint is: do you do achieve the deliverables when I expect them to be achieved?

00:36:26

Speaker

Yeah yeah right, yeah and quality at the quality level. Yet, and yet the call the animal expand so yeah we’re us, via of should because they limit here the military is it I mean it is right. I mean yeah it it’s I I’m in a it is command control us well, that’s inventive and you can’t have an effective thumb military without command control.

00:36:47

Speaker

But it’s interesting to see to see those. You say your your approaches is is potentially changing a bit because the kind of job you have tried, I suspect, officer commander in the field. It’s a complete, different, different thing, but sadly I suspect that gathers a lot of companies that are still very command control, and so you have a lot of leaders who therefore still lot of connecticut shoreline they began

00:37:06

Speaker

any the pandemic would have been extremely uncomfortable with that. But what I’m hearing from from colleagues ex colleagues and friends and stuff is that people are etched in, I feel a lot more comfortable sight yeah. I people seem to get it done, some, let the algorithm to do it, and I think that’s a good thing. I again when my micro found that worked for may lead people to get it done, coach them through any different

00:37:26

Speaker

cult. That’s, but really just trust them to do with it, but they needed it.

00:37:31

Speaker

Ah, tim man has been the super, fascinating and definite conversation. We went out a direction I did not expect actually from

00:37:40

Speaker

ah from you’re talking about productivity and problems are facing right now to know what what the future holding four hr and management in in new disputed, the workplaces of who’s up for rapid swan. Ask you. Is there something else that really sticks in your mind that we haven’t hit yet because we kind of really bounced all over the board here

00:38:00

Speaker

it aired. The conversation just flowed that laser we are one or two things that we we should def like war before we run, I think, there’s a couple things to keep to keep an eye on initial we’ve talked about and am a it’s. I think it’s really important and also solving the the the the the productivity puzzle

00:38:21

Speaker

in diversifying who you hire and I’m not just talking about workplace diversity. Get more. You know. Ethnic minorities and get more women- I’m talking about you- know diversity

00:38:33

Speaker

across the board, including, for instance, a lot of companies. Effects on this at the moment is hiring people with francis with autism

00:38:41

Speaker

and that that diversity is not just about. You have some sort of scorecard it’s about actually creating innovation, so francois things, I’ve been a big fan about, is go out and actively recruiting people with autism possess specific skills that you can’t get anywhere else rare skills and ability to focus and ability to think in a way that

00:39:01

Speaker

others down that solves problems at other people. Can’t it’s. When you look at workplace diversity, don’t look just in terms of yeah. The the kind of normal things will look at look at just broadly people with different ways of thinking. Doing looking in have to broaden that thing out and and workplace diversity in that context is part of solving the productivity puzzle.

00:39:20

Speaker

You know I just I I’ve. I certainly have seen it over the years. I’ve proven guilty where you end up hiring people like yourself, and you have to really challenge yourself to say, hang on a minute. I should probably trying to find people aren’t like me and you’ll find that they they they compliment year and then that creates greater engagement, greater productivity set in australia. They wouldn’t touch on bethesda

00:39:40

Speaker

because spent a whole hour on that on a and know is super interesting that the autism thing that you mention and it’s interesting as something that you don’t you don’t see too often, but I liked the first part. I I definitely lean on that. In fact I tell my guys like I need you to not think like me

00:40:00

Speaker

me.

00:40:02

Speaker

I need some of you to think like me, but I also need some view not to think like me, and what I mean by that is. I need that. I need the ones to think like me to know to be my head space to know how made make decision yet and what my priorities are, so that they can essentially just get on with the job without having to bother me. Yet, to be honest, it’s not

00:40:22

Speaker

to have the people who write so that the o effectively, what I’m trying to do is drive effectiveness and efficiency up and shorten that decision making cycle, I don’t need to make every single decision is going on. So if you know how I am, I think and operate months decisions I make and how I make them and stuff with this. Congratulations young, I young

00:40:43

Speaker

and and do good things out, but for the people who I need to not think like me as a leader and he the challenge me an e them to identify my blind spots. I need them to think your. Are we taking the easy road out here or is there another way, or am I being too judgment or to harsher little challenging as as a as a leader of the organization too,

00:41:02

Speaker

you better get? Sometimes it takes having people from different ethnic backgrounds different

00:41:08

Speaker

get out, maybe with disabilities. I mean it’s it. You have to really broaden the net and I look back my current said I could apply done better in that respect, tried the same approach you did. I was always looking to put teams that they were complementary, that always look for people smarter than me right. That was always important it, but I should abroad, not ted, had two people that were just completely deaf

00:41:28

Speaker

from me right in says the guy with the tattoos and the and the nose ring vienna, who is on the autistic spectrum? I should have got that guy or gal, but to ask, but I think that stats can be a big part of solving the productivity puzzle going for rudy questioning. Why do we need a degree? You know that there’s another bit of diversity always have to have sir

00:41:48

Speaker

somebody with a degree- and I wrote a blog on this recently about in a degree

00:41:55

Speaker

am bias in ocean view. Are we missing out on top dollar buys immediately same way? You have to have it at minimum a bachelor’s degree, and I diverted look at that guy. While I could I could. I got yeah a lot more talented people. I had always had that as a as a criteria

00:42:11

Speaker

nag. I couldn’t third agree with you more. I think, as we go forth with time.

00:42:18

Speaker

The choir educational will begin to get the question the education system, and I actually found myself because the agatha, the two boys one who’s already in school, were not in daycare. While I found myself with the pandemic on what a great time for us reform the entire education system, because here in canada we still do the september late, og,

00:42:38

Speaker

yes, slash, beginning of september to the end of junior cycle and ambiguous summer break my. Why are we still doing this?

00:42:48

Speaker

Yeah, like not every family has someone at home that can take your two kids during the summer. I do not both boy wife and I work. So why are we doing this huge mass of break in the summer and no time off through the rest of the year and are so many other countries out there who do differently that we could do

00:43:07

Speaker

better? They’re? Also awesome, awesome, love the conversation, ottomans wrap up a couple oscillations for you,

00:43:15

Speaker

ochoa being a us all. The guests are moving for leadership and, according to tim ringo, what makes a great leader

00:43:25

Speaker

I think, a great leader is we’ve touched on a lot of it, but I think to try to summarize it is some great there’s always curious is confident in themselves and crates die and others.

00:43:39

Speaker

That’s simple to two point: one effect of love it

00:43:43

Speaker

and finally, how can people find you? How can they follow? You grab a copy of the book and was all but you’re gonna, really simple.

00:43:50

Speaker

It’s great having the last name ring got people remember it, but my at my websites, tim ringo dot com,

00:43:55

Speaker

and you can order my latest book solving the productivity puzzle

00:44:00

Speaker

on that book. You can find it on amazon and then my new book is coming out later this year. The central globalist keep an eye out for that towards end of the year

00:44:10

Speaker

awesome, as always for use listers easy go to moving for leadership, dot com forward, slash one six, four one, sixty four one in the show notes. Ah tim again, thanks grown out thanks for taking time in your schedule, has been a pleasure. It’s been an honor sir great. I my pleasure thanks a lot scott push. It.