Unlocking Your Subordinates Potential | Lisa Koss | Episode 195

Lisa welcome to the show so good to have you here.

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Speaker

Thank you very much happy to be here. Thank you for the invitation. It’s great. I am stoked real job before hit record, and I I got this good vibe. I think we’re gonna have a great conversation all built. You know, building our people up and developing them. So let me ask you the first thing they hadn’t even get in to this line of work anyway in in becoming a lawyer,

00:00:26

Speaker

sure coach, a developmental coach, and how did that luton leads you towards writing your book. Cosmos great read!

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Speaker

Thank you! It it. It won an award which I was really happy about um.

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Speaker

Ah, that me feel good, because it is my first book am how I got into this. Is a long journey really and I’ll just say a couple of things I feel like I’m an accidental coach, isn’t that I began as a linguist. I had any accidents all opportune

00:01:01

Speaker

unity to go to live in europe. When I was a teenager and from there I got really interested in how hard communication is an starting with learning somebody’s language which is kind of step. One then there’s all the rest of communication, which is probably the biggest topic that exists on the planet, is communication and one thing led to an

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Speaker

other, and I was doing some training work. I was doing some language work and I realized that if I could help people in their whole professional journey around communication in organizations that that would be a pretty fun situation, and so I started

00:01:41

Speaker

learning about consulting, I started learning about organizational development and started working on intervening with individuals. Intervening with teams, intervening in organizations and part of that strada is intervening with a one on one is actually coaching. So it’s like how do you have an effective conversation,

00:02:01

Speaker

shell that is useful to both parties that gets whatever dun dun and leaves the person feeling better about themselves, feeling enabled empowered and engaged

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Speaker

so that’s kind of what I was going foragers of what what is that slice began? Studying coaching, I got my certification as a professional, certified coach and has then then I decided that this book was. It was time for a book to put everything that I had learned about coaching into one place. That’s because

00:02:36

Speaker

there’s a coaching program that I designed and have developed and have delivered in nine languages, it’s so called manager is coach program until this book was really a culmination of all that body of work. For about eight years now, I’ve been teaching this program and have a cadre of people who teach it in. Ah,

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Speaker

all the languages I teach it in french and spanish and english, but mostly now my professional colleagues are coaching at time

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Speaker

are doing the program mostly so it’s gonna, it’s kind of um beautiful thing to watch it unfold in the world and help regular managers, wisdom skills that, ironically enough, they never really learn. Otherwise, it’s not something you learn as an engineer at even as a hr prefer

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Speaker

national, which astounds me

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Speaker

but you’re. So right- and actually you are- we talked- we were talking before his record agenda radically on your wire. Do the show? Why do the podcast and all this stuff and I’ll say in how trump set myself up for life post army but there’s another aspect to it right and I fell

00:03:48

Speaker

like I hit the culmination point of the formal education I was gonna get through the filtering leadership of a new. There are some other courses are upcoming and stuff like that, but still it wasn’t exactly where I wanted to dive into the different topics like well. If I can, if they’re not gonna, give to me why

00:04:08

Speaker

what I want to learn about muscle control it so hence joe another reason: the start, a podcast which is now. I did ask the question that I’m interested in and learn both the topics I’m interested in and apply them as cohn line with what you said that we don’t learn lot these skills, not in training programs, running training packages. Actually

00:04:29

Speaker

I did a year long master’s program through the military, and I did a deep dive into our leadership training and said: hey loser the failure points where we’re not actually teaching people how to do these things because we’re not yeah it it it. It behooves the leaders of the real kudos to you the listener, because this is exactly you’ve

00:04:48

Speaker

identified there, a gap and now you’re trying to fill that gap. With this, your great just podcast, then, who knows maybe I’ll, grab a cup your book so far to agree with you on that point, yeah, it’s interesting that people do not often get promoted for anything besides their technical expertise.

00:05:09

Speaker

Generally, however, when somebody’s promoted to be a people manager, it’s because they’re known to have a little bit of a way with other. So sometimes they keep in mind that there’s something about the social aspect around the engagement that people can generate,

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Speaker

but even then, even when the organization recognizes that fact that there’s something about the social side of engaging people and change management, etc that that they still don’t really give people too much support in terms of developing those skills. So that’s what I’m that’s! That’s the term

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Speaker

that I coined in the book is manager coach, so I’m a manager, but when a manager and talking people manager here

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Speaker

as a people manager, I do engage differently. Part of my role really is to pay attention a development of others. It’s not weighed down on the list. It’s really their job is his to work on helping people, support people and challenging people’s at the bacon grease,

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Speaker

so their organizations are growing. People need to be growing growing right along with it,

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Speaker

let’s dive into the shower, because I really enjoy that sucks in iraq,

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Speaker

but becoming a manager coach, so water, some of the best ways for the years out third ago identify okay, I’m I’m a leader, I’m in charge of know a team, a team manager whatever, but the reality is. I need to develop this team be better, more effective, more efficient to oversee, more a larger range

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Speaker

skills and pass and whatnot so was the best way for the leaders out there who start getting really going as that matter to coach once they identified like. Oh, this is really what it where I need to go home.

00:06:57

Speaker

It’s a huge question that you’re asking there’s a lot to it. It’s the it’s! The it’s! The crux about an organizational development profession is really: how do you promote change in the organization and changes uncomfortable, and so how does a manager in the middle of it

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Speaker

organization are at the top of the organization organized herself or himself to be effective? There’s a thousand answers to that go into build on what I said before, because that might be most helpful. I think about it as knowing your skill sets and thinking about systems so, for example, not to get technical,

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Speaker

not too technical, but the systems that we engage in any organization. Whether it’s me and you one on one, whether it’s me and the team, whether it’s me in upon a broader platform in terms of communication across the organization or across of a function, they all requires a different skill sets them

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Speaker

most, probably the most powerful way to change an individual is through coaching because coaching by definition, is tailored to the individual with whom you’re working. So the first thing is to just recognize that the role of em people manager is to engage people in their own debate.

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Speaker

It meant which includes motivation. It includes ah kind of authenticity and what? What is that, all about and and noticing what people are good at it’s about challenging what is not working in equal measure to that support that they need

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need and to notice what people do well. So

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Speaker

I think about being effective as knowing that you are engaging in different ways in different places in the organization differently and their skill sets around. All of that coaching, in particular, is a skill set, and it’s a mindset, a skill set, is what I introducing the book. This is really a high

00:09:01

Speaker

how to guide it’s really a how to book. If you want to know how to what I say is set the table account when you sit down with somebody just what does it mean to coach what it? What are you actually doing know? What is this coaching thing? It seems like such a big everybody’s coaching, but actually it’s interesting that a lot of what people say is coaching is actually just

00:09:21

Speaker

mentoring and I’m gonna be provocative and say that mentoring in many many cases is just a lazy persons, coach, coaching right. In other words, I could tell you, give you advice all day, scott on up whatever, and you could give me advice all day, but that’s really not coaching.

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Speaker

So I describe that and I and I and I I say it’s a skill set because I describe like how you can organize yourselves. The metaphor in the book is how to set the table before you eat, and so how do you set the table to kind of put your ideas, organize your ideas and begin a meal with somebody and that’s really the,

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Speaker

but you wanna, have you wanna trust you wanna hat wanna feel comfortable. You wanna speak together and but you’re not just winging it.

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Speaker

There are there. There is a way to had to do more in less time and not just slowly. Let information come out, but to actually organize yourselves, have a direction to your conversation and then have a mindset, a developmental mindset that goes with it, and you know you talked about having a good vibe earlier, like we have a good vibe

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Speaker

and that’s a little bit. What we’re trying to do when we coach is, is to make sure that the person feels comfortable and that we are leading weeding through a conversation that actually go somewhere.

00:10:44

Speaker

I really liked the part that you, just mention of votes are their from dream. You talked about mentoring versus coaching, and I too have seen it so many times by mercies, superiors or supervisors talking through their subordinates and telling them just what they did when they’re in there they’re supportive shoes and run about perfect coaching method.

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Speaker

It’s going great mentoring to be honest, because you just told them what you did voice yo same young. This is what I did. These were reasons why I made those decisions at that times. You have these orders of factors. I had the way, etc, etc. Yeah just for food for thought, for you to overlay into your current situation where you were to take you in consideration,

00:11:24

Speaker

know for your own decision. Know like not just what you should do cause this, what I did and it turned out free. Oh congratulations, you’re! Not them they’re, not you and is not! Twenty years ago,

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Speaker

exactly everything has changed, I’m different than you. If I tell you, I got, you know yadda, you know you oughta use well, yadda yadda is humor in the situation and what happens if humor is not your best quality went. That’s just not helpful mouthful one bit,

00:11:52

Speaker

so let me tell yeah salami speak from what I know about yous got and let me start from that place not from who I am, but so my from my fallen questions from that thread. Is you know we get? Can you further define explain your your ideas between the differences between mentoring and coaching and when is the right time

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Speaker

to use one or the other from your experience,

00:12:17

Speaker

whatever every situation is different, but I think that ah development services, I call this the dc and the developmental coaching model. So, first of all, to be very, very clear that when you sit down with somebody- and you actually want to support them in their growth, then that is your first on your mind that you are actually new

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Speaker

not trying to solve a problem,

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Speaker

exactly not a business problem, although that may be the context that may be on the table that you set like hate me had this business issue. But there is a theory I have about what’s going on here, that has to do with you and so setting the table. It might include the business

00:13:02

Speaker

problem to be solved and ultimately it will be solved if the person out it develops in the direction that you both agree on. But that is the difference. It’s really about taking away your own need for them to do something specific. Maybe, though, that you would do that you want them to do, and it’s putting yourself

00:13:22

Speaker

secondary and you’re, making your koji you’re, making your coaching client to be the one who is being supported and grown and grown. It’s about development, it’s not about problem solving, and that is the number one tricky thing for people, because of course we’re all under pressure we’re under time pressure. We gonna get things done

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Speaker

and we want our people to do it. So how do you do that

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is about is about setting up the conversation in that way? We’re mentoring is really kind of oftentimes chatting listening to the problem, giving advice about how you might go about that problem

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and that’s not what developmental coaching is about

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Speaker

so must must divide dive deeper into developmental coach, because I know there’s three three carts through the process, so can we actually dive into them individually, for the murder have a better understanding of your model of the process and what they should be working for as they go through it

00:14:24

Speaker

yeah. So, if I were to go back to the paradigm of skill set in mindset, I would say that the the seven step model in the book is really the the logic about kind of how you organize your brain around. It is kind of the skill set of it. There’s three pieces. There’s three phases of it.

00:14:42

Speaker

The first one is trust. I got a lovely compliment from one of my dear colleagues who said that the trust segment was the best she had seen and, and it really kind of, how do you do that and isn’t that the basis of everything nobody wants to be

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Speaker

coached by somebody? They don’t trust. Nobody, not you not me nobody’s like now, thanks thanks,

00:15:04

Speaker

another day, total false start of the other little girls star, and there are lots of things you can do and entrust can be learned. It is a skill set, and it’s it’s. Ah, so I have a kind of a list of of challenges there. I have two rules of trust: how to get better at it, etc that I hopefully will be very helpful

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Speaker

for those who who struggle with that and in some cases, there’s issues around empathy and appreciation. In fact, I just did a a six minute video on that on when did about appreciation and empathy in the role of coaching. I just did that this week for anyone who’s interested. The second phase is around this concept of contracting.

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Speaker

It’s a funny word contracting because we often think of contracts like signing a document, but we’re actually talking about cause psychological contracting here, and so I break it down into two different ways of contracting with someone. Sometimes, when I want to start the conversation of I’m the coach, if I’m the manager, I might wanna, have a, I want to

00:16:05

Speaker

I contract in a particular way and is a slight difference. If somebody comes to me and asks a question- and I think I can identify it as ah, this is a developmental opportunity and I might go about it buried in a couple with a few little tweaks to it, and so I go over. Both coach led contracting and client led contracting, but it’s basically the second

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Speaker

phase of the model. And how do you again organize your thoughts in a way that helps the conversation start deep enough,

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Speaker

meaning you indicate by the way you begin that you actually want this conversation to be about them and their development, and that often people take their slow time getting there. And I ah believe that if you have a clear sense of what you wanna do and accomplish

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Speaker

station it that you that you can do it without breaking trust, go right into it, and I describe and of how to how to do that, and- and that is about making it developmental and having providing some reflection to the client about what you noticed. And what is your theory about? Why

00:17:15

Speaker

why this particular business issue, or this particular aspect is not happening, and so you don’t need to be right about it. You just need to start in such a way that the person understands that we are having a developmental conversation right now, we’re not

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Speaker

doing anything else, we’re not trying to solve a problem, we’re not trying to simply give feedback. We are actually engaging in such a way that people understand that hey. This is about me. This is about me being better. This is about me finding, ah,

00:17:47

Speaker

a way to feel happier and as a part of setting the table, we talk a lot about motivation so that that’s that’s that’s part of the contracting segment. The last segment is called. The last phase is working the idea working the issue, and that is the part of the model where you actually go after the

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Speaker

the ideation of what do I want to do, based on what we’ve contracted around

00:18:13

Speaker

makes, it makes a lotta sense. I want a boomerang back and you you hit a note with me on empathy and being more empathetic, and you know I am I’m probably gonna be open and honest here. I probably don’t come across as most empathetic leader out there alive

00:18:33

Speaker

really do care about my people, but it’s just my my natural personality, ah you’re being army will a rough around the edges. I speak my mind may curse from time to time and it may not really come off an empathetic to my sport is out there. So how can I work on their skills at identifying

00:18:53

Speaker

like? I need to be a bit more empathetic, but at the same time, I don’t want to be more like I’m, like the soft leader out there, that just no country gives in to their peoples wish when you need to have that tough love with them,

00:19:09

Speaker

and you need to really grip, grip them or be little bit more direct of rhythm, especially in a culture which I walker, which you know it’s common in other workplaces, to

00:19:21

Speaker

yeah the t. It’s a great question. There are a lot of people who struggle with this idea of empathy kind of what is it? How do you do it? How do you get it? I mean there are people who who comes very naturally to and others who it doesn’t. Ultimately, people need to understand that needed, underneath

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to feel that you have their best interests at heart

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up. That, ultimately, is what the outcome is. Is that you’re looking for that people actually are trusting you because you, you know how to put their needs. First, that’s a piece of it. The other piece is, I believe, is true appreciation whereby

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Speaker

noticing that everything that you notice, in which in many cases in the work force, is like things up arc working and every time you notice something that’s not working. There is something to appreciate. It is amazing to me how obvious it can be when somebody is um

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Speaker

doing something that seems out of place or kind of wrong, but is actually a terrific skill there. The story that I this story that I I I’ve told a recently- is that there’s a woman who was telling me about her subordinate, who came after only

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Speaker

six months on the job and asked for a performance for a raise asked for a new position or basically sometime in the future. I would like to be promoted and only been on the job for six months, and so now what what? What is she supposed to do? She thought it was completely inappropriate. It bothered her that yeah after six months with this

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Speaker

person was not an expert in their field. They were already talking about next steps

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and the person came to her was all prepared had this binder and all these stats and august stop and she was just very put off by it,

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Speaker

and it really colored her perception about this person, and so the thing, though, that you could notice if it was conscious, is that this person showed a lot of productivity. This person was prepared. This person was interested in greece.

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Speaker

Knowing this person was organized, they had a binder, they made it. They try to set the table in a way. That said, look I’m not. I just want you to keep this in mind. I’m not trying to. Ah,

00:21:49

Speaker

you know threaten I’m not looking for another job, so they they were sort of aware of an emotional intelligence perspective, what they were saying and the impact that it might have on so there’s a whole lot to appreciate there and, interestingly enough, this client of mine said I actually would really like the rest of my people,

00:22:09

Speaker

bl in my function, to be as organized as this guy. So isn’t that interesting of a lot to appreciate, and so for when you start thinking about appreciation in that way, you might also start having empathy with how this person has put a lot of effort into having the conversation, and, if you focus on, what’s right about the situation, you can start

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Speaker

seeing the true nature of people, and that sets you up with trust and that allows you to have the development a conversation. She could still express to him

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Speaker

what was disappointing to her and they could have a conversation about b, the skillset she wants him to grow, etc, but it’s a great base upon which to start.

00:22:51

Speaker

Oh, it’s the scrutiny. I think that’s probably the best advice to you know looking at it from a terms of having your people’s best interests of herndon and as long as you express the motto argent around. The way I come across was like listen are your are one of your goals is best interests of her

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Speaker

hurt old, automated actions I take her towards that. I think you’re old is what makes would make your router come across as more empathetic, regardless of you know how how they are to talk. Eccentrics are from others, many leadership, styles and you can understand deal it no matter the style. You can feel it when p

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Speaker

people are being authentic and they are giving arm in the way that they lead. Absolutely sort of. I want to

00:23:41

Speaker

get into a couple questions here and let’s get into the coaching, so, let’s say you’re in a situation where you’re trying to coach a supportive but they’re, not necessarily in to it. How can the readers out there hope get their subordinates understanding what’s important and get into being coached, so the the leaders can get more

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Speaker

more out of their people in the long run?

00:24:04

Speaker

Another another big question with lots of parts. I would, I would say that one of the best things that leaders can do to become a manager coach is to get clear on what they care about. In other words, if you don’t

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Speaker

seem to privilege this idea of say development or growth or authenticity, or on something that correlates with

00:24:35

Speaker

coaching, then when you bring it up with somebody, it’s gonna come a little bit more out of left field. So there’s pretty much, I believe, there’s a connection between what people believe in and coaching or they’re often is anyway, and to the extent that you can say, talk

00:24:55

Speaker

about the importance of learning from each other or knowledge transfer or growth, or it could be scaling the organization whatever it is, that you are passionate about. If people don’t know what you care about, it will be difficult for you to sit down and say: look now, I’m doing this, and it’s all about you and it’s about your develop,

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Speaker

then I’ll be like yeah right. So can you actually help yourself out by making it really clear who you are as a leader and then draw a line between something? That’s on your list and development and coaching for example, and so first of all, you help yourself out,

00:25:35

Speaker

because when you sit down with somebody and you want to start a conversation and they don’t know why you’re doing it, it’s partly because the there’s something about you that doesn’t correlate or that they don’t trust. So let me move to that topic. Witches could be trust that you really do have their best interests at heart, but also could be the I just.

00:25:55

Speaker

I don’t trust you right and, though sometimes gets in the way of development, because I don’t again back to. I don’t want to be coached by somebody. Don’t trust, and it could be that the leader needs to focus on getting to know people better more, and so that seems very basic and obvious.

00:26:16

Speaker

But it’s not when you ask what an organism if in an organization what the organization believes in the values of the organization often see respect on the wall, respecting others respecting okay. So the problem with respect is that it doesn’t mean much. It means so many things it doesn’t mean much. So

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Speaker

my belief is that, in order to truly respect somebody, you have to know them and everybody’s busy. So how is it that you get to know people

00:26:49

Speaker

and so that when you get to know people you’re able to actually respect them, you know them at a deeper level. You know them. You respect them, and so

00:26:59

Speaker

the the advice I would give is to notice people to notice something about them. I haven’t, you know really curious about the things in the background of this video scott and got questions for you and I’m looking at your plants, I’m looking at some packages, you have on your desk, ohio

00:27:19

Speaker

still my wife’s and I made I am interested in. You know your microphone set up in the blue, the blues. I have a blue microphone myself and I’m just curious, I’m just interested, and so, if I can get interested in you, we have a chance.

00:27:36

Speaker

What does I was gonna? Leave it there at in terms of how to reach people so that they can even start the process. Anymore takes a takes time as readers. My saves all the time, ironically, that we need to make time for our people and it doesn’t have to be out of a huh

00:27:55

Speaker

huge ton of time. First, thirty minutes your day, walking drop your bag drop, your briefcase, whatever grab a cup of coffee and for god sakes just walk around talk to people. Don’t talk to him about shop, talk talk to about third night they’re days or weekends, their kids, their wives, stir interests or hobbies, etc,

00:28:14

Speaker

and that’s how you get to build that trust, get to know your people and then build that relationship so that when they know they feel comfortable with you to come in, then it’s no longer a huge hurdle to start back coaching process. In my mind, the other the other day somebody asked me- and this is a common class

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Speaker

and they said no, I know years must ask about people’s families and, I said, hold on right there.

00:28:42

Speaker

The question really is: are you interested in families right? Are you interested not seems like make a strange question, but this is goes back to authenticity. What happens if you you’re not that interested in the person’s kids? It’s just not your thing. You know you’d actually really rather talk about some other thing that you’re curious about, and you

00:29:01

Speaker

just do it because you should the worst not the best, and worst thing that can happen is that they start going on about their family and you don’t really feel engaged. Therefore, they’re gonna reveal that if they feel that they’re not gonna, feel trust and they’re gonna say: oh they’re just checking a box, and so I I remember also quick story. I remember had a client once who a

00:29:22

Speaker

this was a long time ago, and this was the most difficult climb at ever. Had I found him very ungracious, I was working for a team that he was the head of. He was the director of ops and I was working with a a manufacturing plant in there and there’s there’s their staff, the plant manager in and his staff. This was maybe

00:29:42

Speaker

fifteen to twenty years ago and this per person who had hired me to work with that team that was in mexico up it said to me

00:29:52

Speaker

mm. You know I I just you know, I just don’t think they’re doing anything right and there’s this problem and that problem I just found him very unappreciative of all the work that was being done and how hard they were trying and I was starting to get feel turned off about him just in general, as a person, and I looked down the road, I thought you know what this project

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Speaker

an end. Well,

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Speaker

if I allow myself to feel

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Speaker

ah resistance about him in general or to not be curious, so I sat down with a piece of paper and I said I what what do I wanna know because curiosity

00:30:27

Speaker

is the beginning of a possible, more trust, heat and trust him. Knowing so I began question question question. I know writing three pages of questions. The first set of the first page of questions I had to toss into the wastebasket because they were all kind of judgemental and negative, and then, by the time I got to the end of the second page. I was like you know what

00:30:48

Speaker

there’s some good questions here, and that, for me, was my

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Speaker

ah was my arm.

00:30:56

Speaker

Was my jumping might might sort of like jump off place to reengage with him around? What I was interested in understanding about him didn’t have to have do anything to do with the team by just start, asking him questions and to reopen myself to creating something that could be possibly a more trusting, an open relationship, and I think it’s

00:31:16

Speaker

saved the project whereby I was able to reengage with him in a way allowed me to know him better to build more trust and then to were from that platform.

00:31:27

Speaker

So curiosity

00:31:29

Speaker

wonderment these are wonderful things as you begin to build, ah of the possibility of supporting somebody in the context of coaching, but that’s a beautiful story and also couldn’t think of a better to begin the wrap up. The show loser, what a great conversation or through in georgia

00:31:49

Speaker

having you on the show, but before we do wrap it up, I do got a couple of questions for you and first beer question here. Are I get asked all the guests year the ago? Ah, here at the people force news, podcast moves corny lisa cause what makes a great leader

00:32:06

Speaker

what makes a great leader.

00:32:09

Speaker

You ask everybody, this question: everybody.

00:32:13

Speaker

What makes a great leader

00:32:18

Speaker

my answer to that would be

00:32:22

Speaker

a leader who strives every day every day to be the most authentic version of her or himself and the most aware version of him or herself,

00:32:39

Speaker

because

00:32:43

Speaker

nobody needs to pretend to be somebody else. People have a good nose for authenticity,

00:32:50

Speaker

and I think if we stay aware, that means we’re gonna be noticing new things and growing,

00:32:58

Speaker

and what we need are leaders who know how to do both of those things.

00:33:04

Speaker

That’s adorable.

00:33:06

Speaker

Those are the two things that that come to mind as, first and foremost you know, authenticity has a lot involved with it.

00:33:15

Speaker

Ah owning who you are respecting, who you are not being afraid to put out there, who you are at the same time, is always learning always getting feedback. Expanding your awareness and making sure that your impact in the world is what you intend it to be and that, therefore you

00:33:35

Speaker

can always be working on a better version of yourself each and every day.

00:33:42

Speaker

That’s awesome, beautiful and falco. Some of the shows. How can be fun you? How can you follow your shameless plugs or lug have at it told me you know?

00:33:51

Speaker

Well, it’s certainly an easy place, but maybe the easiest place to find me is on linkedin. I am lisa costs k o s s, my book called leading for learning how managers can get business results through developmental coaching and inspired deep employee commitment,

00:34:11

Speaker

I’m a two fer I always want to offer, and that is a tougher for me. The business gets what they need and employees get what they need and so that book it’s published, rep routledge can be found on amazon. It can also be found on the routledge website course, but those are two places to find me as well as the website

00:34:31

Speaker

right on toast global dot com. Autos s o m t o s on toes

00:34:36

Speaker

global dot. Com is the website where you’ll you’ll find my bile

00:34:42

Speaker

awesome and losers. Always it’s easy for you just go to moving for lucia dotcom, four slash, one, nine five one! Ninety five michigan, it’s been a pleasure. It’s been on a ma’am. Thank you for coming out so good to have you here. Thank you. Scott you’ve been terrific. I really enjoy you and I really wish you all the best with your podcast senior and your current work in the army.

00:35:03

Speaker

Thank you.