Win the Talent War | Mike Sarraille and George Randle

In our modern business landscape, the war for talent is more complex than ever. You need to attract and retain the best talent for your organization to win, but without the right strategy or mindset, you won’t be able to compete. If your revenue is declining, you’re losing market share to your competition, or your organizational health is deteriorating, it’s time to evolve how you approach this never-ending war. After all, your PEOPLE—not your product or service—are your strongest competitive advantage.

The Talent War explores how U.S. Special Operations Forces (SOF) assess, select, and develop their world-class talent. You’ll learn how to adopt a talent mindset, the single greatest weapon you can possess in the war for talent. When your organization reflects this mindset, you will hire, train, and develop the right people, and put them in the best positions to make decisions that allow you to retake the advantage and win the war.

Mike Sarraille is the CEO of EF Overwatch, an executive search and talent advisory firm, and leadership consultant with Echelon Front. He is a former Recon Marine and retired US Navy SEAL officer with twenty years of experience in Special Operations, including the elite Joint Special Operations Command.

George Randle is a Strategic Advisor to EF Overwatch, former US Army officer, and Vice President of Global Talent Acquisition at Forcepoint, a human-centric cybersecurity company. George has more than two decades of experience in talent acquisition at Fortune 100 and Fortune 1000 firms.

Topics

During this interview Mike, George, and I discuss the following topics:

  • How they entered  into the HR realm
  • How companies are currently losing the Talent War
  • The attributes which Special Operations Forces look for in their candidates
  • How companies can leverage the Special Operations Forces selection ideology for their selection process
  • Who should be apart of the selection process
  • How to get over a blow to your ego as a leader 
  • How leaders can switch their hiring mindset from skills-based to talent-based

Guest Resources

If you are interested in learning more about Mike and George’s resources be sure to check out the following links:

Transcript

Live

00:00:06

Speaker

gentlemen: welcome to the show mike and george is so great to have both here tonight

00:00:12

Speaker

did scott think. If ravenous appreciate very much so first question out of the gate, I got to former special forces guys how the hacked out just one liner. I

00:00:28

Speaker

now I am your mark- one mod zero army, nag,

00:00:33

Speaker

scott really doesn’t matter. Be research earn trust me. I know there is either pound slash regardless. That’s true! That’s true.

00:00:41

Speaker

I have one special forces guy, one army guy, the other and currently serving army dude in the middle between you two.

00:00:50

Speaker

So it’s very interesting talk tonight. What an interest didn’t know is how do to you guys end up writing a book which is generally revolving around human resources and talent acquisition

00:01:05

Speaker

in that round. It’s a colorful story, a little at mike laid out on that one.

00:01:13

Speaker

So do state guys, I’m sorry! I must have a shorter guy destruction, source state question again,

00:01:21

Speaker

so added to two or three guys end up writing a book about basically human resources and talent acquisition.

00:01:29

Speaker

So the you get your it up a little bit. I got the gist of the question so, on

00:01:35

Speaker

george served

00:01:38

Speaker

back in the the civil war, I’m sorry the the eighties nineties,

00:01:43

Speaker

you don’t! You just eat up his background. He actually was stationed in berlin during the cold war siege. I got a piece of history, but george george is rout,

00:01:53

Speaker

he’s a lot like mine, not where we were too at first glance: unexceptional I young eighteen year olds and die though we didn’t believe that he enlisted in the army and eighties. I am listing the record in the early nineties. We followed were civil rotten were both listed, it became officers.

00:02:13

Speaker

We call that a mustang in the art imitating them recorded. You got home things in the army. Sometimes we do

00:02:21

Speaker

those in the mouth dozen enough yeah, so both mustangs in a georgia enter the private sector a few years before I did and shows off his and I’m speaking for george to gradually he found his way to human resources because he knew how to find or identify and find time.

00:02:42

Speaker

He also knew how to develop the leadership, not part. So when, when you have the block access to the tower, how special operations great organizations went on top, he brought the private sector experience. Those are military. I brought the special operations experience it, so he reached out to me on. We did against the power of

00:03:02

Speaker

linkedin. I’ve never seen a more powerful tool in terms of social networking. Even more so then again estimated facebook really are our ah our main areas of of honey, but he reached out in new house with national front jacket with links company, and he also saw that I was exhausted. He saw that I was trying place veterans, invited me to a racket.

00:03:22

Speaker

Just a you say. The rest was history. Ah, we hit it off kept on talking. A friendship ensued in it long enough. A brotherhood ensued. I actually, I asked him to be a pastor from I’m my wife and I’s wedding in which he had the crowd in stitches

00:03:40

Speaker

laughing on the ground. At my expense,

00:03:43

Speaker

he may have high pressure job. I’ve ever had to include the military to be an army guy standing in front of navy seals, trying to conduct a ceremony knocked it out of the park, knocked it out. The park on a two wheeler see passions, one. We love our country, we believe

00:04:03

Speaker

even the military as the world’s greatest leadership development platform. We believe in the power free enterprise and we believe in or passionate about how you create these elite winning teams and it’s not as easy as it sounds em. So as we started to venture down the business packed together one night,

00:04:23

Speaker

I picked up the phone because I had an idea. I occasionally get like one good idea: every few months: animal, okay, george, we need a book

00:04:34

Speaker

in using special operations as like the business case example for an organization that is just the business world fascinated with special operations and how they don’t these teams in other other. Ah,

00:04:46

Speaker

and he agreed in there. Now we started the the the the process of

00:04:51

Speaker

of identifying how to go through the process of writing book, which neither of us knew is a daunting daunting

00:04:59

Speaker

task, almost like starting a business and figured out operator, even though we thought this thing was was never it ago, probably about a few months in we, we eventually post book.

00:05:12

Speaker

That’s awesome, love story and enjoyed one conversation midst of a world another time when a duna history paper again yeah. I was really grateful to go from horses to the jeep and eventually see the initial roll out of the humvee. So you know I’ve gotten to see a lot. My time, I was very grateful for that, because I didn’t like horses to be honest with you,

00:05:32

Speaker

so, let’s dive into the new medium potatoes, the bolts, the nuts and bolts of what you guys talked about in the town or in the interesting things that I found was really gay. And how do you really explained a companies out there actually

00:05:51

Speaker

losing the war before they even start entering it in how they’re going after the wrong candidates in the first place so low? And how one can you explain for the audience out there why companies are going after the wrong people and then I guess people died into how they go about actually doing

00:06:11

Speaker

you’re going after the right people? Well, you know, I, I guess you don’t one of the things. I would say it’s not that they’re going after the wrong people, since they don’t know what the hell they’re going after in the first place,

00:06:22

Speaker

they don’t have a talent mindset and that’s that’s a thing and end. The genius around special operations is that nobody comes to the table with special operations experience. They have to become experts in potential based hiring and companies. Don’t look at it that way. It’s butts in seats. It’s I’ve got headcount. I’ve got budget, hey, I need you now,

00:06:42

Speaker

two hands are are, but you know, two extra hands are better than the two aunts that I have there’s all kinds of reasons, but they don’t know what they’re looking for an email I might can. I borrow a lot of phrases from one another

00:06:56

Speaker

and I really never wanted to say this about my profession, but I think mike really nailed it when he said you know the default position for a lotta people, hiring is lazy,

00:07:06

Speaker

and here it’s so correct. It’s so on point that people default to objective requirements and they think okay, if this person has four years of experience or they a five years in there where they came from our competitor and the default position is to just go to the market. I need a headcount here’s, a list of objective expect, you know, require

00:07:26

Speaker

intimate, and this is what I’m gonna go after. They don’t start with. What does success? Look like in special operations gets out better than anybody else, because they know the attributes defined success.

00:07:40

Speaker

I sliced it in reality. You can’t leave me hanging there in waterloo. The tributes that instant known- probably it might for you to answer- is water, lose a tributes that special operations, yale recruiters in the selection process, known that wandered in looking for and then fall on, is

00:07:59

Speaker

how can we bring that to companies civilian organizations out there for those executives who are watching us gasoline to you said it special operations recruiters the people out there actually finding the young men and women are actually defaulting to objective measures like do? Is there

00:08:19

Speaker

fiscal trees? Whore guess is. There are no intellect to forget what a component of the ascot that is wet wet, which they’re are tt tt score?

00:08:30

Speaker

Are they medically qualified? Ultimately, when they’re selected based off meet nasdaq’s requirements and other high bars, they go to special operations. Training in those are the instructors they actually go through the the subjective form of the assessment of looking for specific attributes it trying to evaluate. Does this mean one half

00:08:50

Speaker

character to operate within one of the books? That’s just a is one was chaotic environment. You can place complacent you, fat cats, did the did the environment special operations operating? Guess what that? That’s? No different in business world, it is a cutthroat environment, is hyper competitive. It it moves at the speed of light, and if you can

00:09:11

Speaker

do that, if you can’t give in too quickly, your business is getting away very quickly, but looking at the attributes,

00:09:18

Speaker

this one, he appeared at the gate between myself and jordan and we have a contrary, daughter, josh time.

00:09:26

Speaker

You know each of the special operations community is a distress force, army, special forces, more sock, seals, rangers air force. Special operations at all come up with their own list of attributes in the lists are different, but as you look it up, they’re, really not that far off from each other. It’s we went through all these attributes that we lived there.

00:09:46

Speaker

This will in what new attributes that make a highly successful business operator and a regardless of go name. It really the same attributes and we came up with a core list of ah of nine, and a few of them are like drive. You can’t create drive where dr does not exist. Now dr aziz is big thing.

00:10:07

Speaker

We come to special operations orange grid, or so they think it then once they are pushed to their mental physical limits. That’s when true character emerges and that’s when you determine if the person has dr they’re willing to drive through anything to make it onto that. He now says operations. Training is it

00:10:27

Speaker

to to to the the the normal human eye. It seems sadistic, it’s not it’s not intended to be up whatsoever. We’re not dare to put the kids through, do torture to make them cold other at the at the vienna, the precipice of hypothermia or put their bodies through out again, we put into their mental physical, ah minutes in order to identify

00:10:47

Speaker

their true character. Dr resiliency of emotional intelligence and is is a good one, as we say, integrity is, is, is a no go criteria. What we need is neither have integrity or you don’t, and if there’s any indication that you lack integrity, you got because you you’re gonna, be one entrusted with lives in actually know anything.

00:11:07

Speaker

Get the special operations community does anywhere in the world can make front page news in a matter of hours. If not minutes so does list of nine were, I think, george I’d say we’re pretty proud, proud of them, because I needed a. I think we went from like thirty five and it was a tough discussion to get it down to work tonight. Yeah

00:11:28

Speaker

yeah it was, it was brutal and you know the thing about these attributes is that each one of the special operations units you know is mike mentioned in marseille graders, when it’s green braes with navy seals air force pjs whatever they all found their particular flavor of the things that they were looking for it. What make a week,

00:11:48

Speaker

what executives could learn a frankly? What they just don’t do when they go to hiring is to say what are those factors for our department, our role that define success and to mike, and I were looking for those commonalities and we think if you look at those because you’re frankly, if you’re gonna go hire a debate

00:12:08

Speaker

upper and I’ve got two years. A c plus plus this for years, make them twice as good, no but does resiliency when their program fails or when they get a bug in their program, or you know when they, when they have a setback or when you have a sales person where does resiliency fit in when that deal falls through at the last second, because the company does

00:12:28

Speaker

an a budget. So we were looking at all of those things that would help companies say these are the things that matter toward success. These are predictive factors. Experience is not necessarily predictive in special operations, knows that in the middle of the most chaotic environments, and mike was talking about those hard skills to great dads

00:12:48

Speaker

when those character attributes come through it look a covet me cope. It’s like the best example who was prepared for that, but the people that had the resiliency that had the drive that had the curiosity to the effect of intelligence had all those attributes signal factor, hey man, let’s move on

00:13:06

Speaker

now. That’s that’s super interesting and, and I like the way that you guys went with that now.

00:13:14

Speaker

Might I got an idea what you’re talking about when you’re talking selection and all that stuff? I did go through earth of a person selection back in two thousand and nine for the support, a role for one unit here in canada- and you know it even even support role is not fun but in but in the weekend young.

00:13:34

Speaker

You start second question: some things are like man. Yeah man is good. You know get all that stuff, so I guess my question is you know I love red I’d go with looking for these attributes and stuff, but you know obviously bow or hates be here. Grew more can’t be ill putting people through hell week.

00:13:54

Speaker

Yeah decay be doing all these different types, the site task. In interview after interview after interview with from types a instance of it, so you know how did they go and leverage this type of mentality when rhythm looking for their people? Looking for the right people, those count, the ones that have those attributes that are really gonna young, especially one with like

00:14:14

Speaker

red road they’re gonna, get through these hard times and bring their team with them. So how did you go about actually looking for that were in when they can’t deal critical torture? The people to see who thought were very careful to make sure that that was a up your nose? Forty, I I don’t take your ah, your your potential candidates. Jockeying is down,

00:14:34

Speaker

and you know, ah, lake superior during the winter.

00:14:40

Speaker

Maybe water mojo has two degrees celsius, water, yeah, yeah, susie, oh canada,

00:14:46

Speaker

you’d you’d have people as we say, hiding out real quick. So you know, people that are open. Minded can understand this. You people that are close minded to the book big they just they can see what we’re saying is special operations, which is over half a century old. I their their assessment selection process. They’re hiring process

00:15:06

Speaker

continue to evolve. It’s taken them fifty years to become one of the best organizations at hiring the world without a doubt, they’re the best organization in hiring because they basically run a two year. Behavioral interview process yeah. You can’t hide during your into characters, going to come out, they’re going to know tomato.

00:15:26

Speaker

If so, they had to design that process over a series of years, they’re still calling it and they found out what works for them, but he is george said earlier: they identified what a good operator weather in the business world restart operations. What did a good town profile looks like this is what

00:15:47

Speaker

we know these are the attributes required in order to be successful in this role? Is you become good? You have to do it for every all role in function within your organization is, you say, are even special operations. Support goes through an assessment, slash process and they’re being evaluated on some. The same attributes as well as other attributes is going to be

00:16:07

Speaker

logistics. They want to see that they’re they’re, they’re, very young detail oriented so that they’re looking for specific games so for businesses they need to create a multi variant process for hiring and I’ll. Let george go through that. It’s should something that has several gates. Ah in they need to continue to evolve, got

00:16:27

Speaker

process until they start to one make sure that every hire is a home run in never gonna do that. But you wanted your close fast, that’s the goal. Perfection is always the goal. We accept nothing less than excellence and also your attrition starts to decline as well so you’re evolving process in. Even when you get numbers that you’re happy with you too,

00:16:47

Speaker

you do evolve. It so get your competition can never catch up towards you and talk about the multibillion dollar project. A you know, there’s three things and, and we we had this great contributor named brian decker.

00:16:59

Speaker

You know- and he was talking about it- and this is why you know what a I don’t think their solicitor after that splintered interview that didn’t go from one interviewer to the second to the third to the fourth and they get asked all the same questions. It was just like one long, continuous interview with a different face and it drives me absolutely crazy.

00:17:20

Speaker

The one of the things o’brien decker talked about is that once you meet a minimum gate for the experience you know, there’s the experiential gay to me where we don’t wanna hire an intern for ceo, we’re not gonna hire somebody with an underwater basket weaving degree to be a computer programmer. Obviously, so so there’s an experiential gate, but once you meet the minimum required stat geek

00:17:40

Speaker

closest ten. Second, there might be some kind of behavioral assessment test, there’s any number of him out there and if, if you want to know which ones are the best call us won’t walk you through it.

00:17:49

Speaker

But the third thing is designing an interview process that looks at the attributes that you have pre defined as success and require or four required for success in this role and you design questions to elicit the how behind their accomplishments, their failures and those are

00:18:09

Speaker

attributes and, above all else, believe it or not.

00:18:13

Speaker

Yeah, like we said we don’t take somebody down to lake superior to lake michigan cause, that’s the one I been in and and get him cold and sandy and all of that. But you can create an awful lot of pressure in an interview by asking the how behind questions she had the experiential gate. You can use some kind of assessment tool, but then you have the

00:18:33

Speaker

the interview process in that interview. Process has to be very standardized: you’re, comparing apples to apples, oranges, oranges against the success profile. What usually happens is that people walk into that process, not defining success and grabbing people. I hate to say off the street, but that’s really at a saint, hey who’s available to interview

00:18:53

Speaker

to add this person to our team. Instead of having a players who know what a player’s look like interview for tat across the standardized assessment,

00:19:06

Speaker

you know I to I did it would brian decker found, especially with intelligence, will strike lot of people. I think within a business. Well, yeah it actually is room took guy. He I had to sit back and process what ramsay so again, d g t score in the ass bad ass. Is I sideways basically overall intelligence for soldiers, running,

00:19:25

Speaker

filter, yeah, gavin specific? Yet is it a specific game in order to qualify, they even try special operations, but what they found is that increasing scores of intelligence don’t equate to superior performance. So again they looked at the town profile say what is necessary in the identified okay

00:19:46

Speaker

in one somebody needs it. It’s closed. It’s no longer a factor.

00:19:53

Speaker

You don’t.

00:19:56

Speaker

I met a lot of intelligent people

00:20:00

Speaker

and there’s lot of organizations that grew up super go after simply horsepower intellectual horsepower they went you get. Intellectual horsepower is, is requiring the special operations community, but a lot of organizations fish on an ivy league schools for the these highly intelligent people. I met a lot of highly intelligent people. There row what I call wicked smart,

00:20:21

Speaker

absolutely low in character or lack the ability to deal with volatility, uncertainty, complexity and ambiguity. Now you know it’s a phrase: you they talk about rich people. I’ve met a lot of rich people that are written the bank but poor character, and I will say this scott you’re, probably very

00:20:40

Speaker

selective, of who you let into your personal circle, because that very much identified her brain is well. Why would you be in any different with the people that you letting your company? This is a prosecute, take very seriously and we’re not yeah. I don’t care if I worked for over walmart, if I’m in charge walmart higher, even hire people that I know oregon had

00:21:01

Speaker

vatican promote in elevate apprehend,

00:21:04

Speaker

not of not not the other way round.

00:21:07

Speaker

So this is why companies have to take this very seriously in adult,

00:21:12

Speaker

not a dumpling dumpling, your guys and one think it interesting you’re talking, basically betterment, the hiring permanent storage and some young welcome my mind one is:

00:21:24

Speaker

was I look like when they’re gone through these gates? You know a lot of people out there, basically like okay, ancho up in it’s down the hatch, our rap and then some random guy, and then maybe you could be my supervisor or just some other person know who should be the ones they’re the air through through

00:21:44

Speaker

from start to finish this process, because I to feel my gut is not probably not what you guys would recommend what make you know an ad. I’m gonna steal your example like, because my brother, he pitching

00:22:02

Speaker

spitting fire and ticked off, that he was brought into the assessment selection process and pulled off the line where he loves to be where he lives to be, in the reason that they did. That is because a players like nyc recognize and others a player

00:22:22

Speaker

attributes and the challenges that those teams that you pull together, they’re generally members of that team, they’re like okay, let me pull who’s available instead of looking at the most successful, be it doesn’t have to be the most successful people in that department has to be a players from multiple departments. You want your absolute superstars that

00:22:43

Speaker

people that are succeeding across all departments to be in that interview process. Just because you’re interviewing an engineer doesn’t mean a sales, a player shouldn’t be interviewing them, you’re, interviewing a sales person and a player from engineering and a player from finance and a player from human resources.

00:23:03

Speaker

It’s about a player, selecting a player’s, be players are going to select, be players in in I kind of joke having been in town acquisition, see players will select whatever the cat drug in you don’t know what you’re gonna get it’s important and that’s one of the reasons you know mike was brought into selection assessment. That’s one of the big things he brought to the book

00:23:23

Speaker

is that mike knows what it takes to succeed in the most brutal environment, the most chaotic environment ever of combat the most difficult one you’re ever gonna face on the planet. That’s the person, you need selecting your talent and, if you don’t have that

00:23:41

Speaker

here is what you get is basically run of. The mill for lack of better

00:23:50

Speaker

might on earth

00:23:52

Speaker

focused in on you and and that’s a story for. First sack in so here maybe hear the podcast a focus on wanna call the three domains leading yourself leading your team and leading organizations were predominantly in the organization space been a bit of a teenage me a flavor to a two mile, long talk with yourself for a second, because my first partner-

00:24:12

Speaker

I don’t I couldn’t be- could win like a shock to your ego, some one yeah. How did you? How did you feel when you got pulled off the line? Do what you love to be pulled into dunes, this selection process and to added you as a leader, get over that and see the actual value that was

00:24:32

Speaker

bringing to your organization? At that time, I had a complete allergic reaction, not eliminate hitler allergic reaction. If we want to trace the source was one hundred cent on a critically without a doubt, my ego,

00:24:48

Speaker

that was without doubt was totally ego it in the fact that you know on paper,

00:24:56

Speaker

three other people were selected to take the twos to go back to work to combat who I had more combat experience bed, and I outperformed

00:25:06

Speaker

citizens in.

00:25:09

Speaker

I couldn’t do that. Well and basically, you know one wasn’t given an option.

00:25:16

Speaker

That was where I was going much like the company said it would ship your here. We need you to take charge of the situation and we, but I did have a great leader. They pulled me aside and explained the why behind it,

00:25:27

Speaker

I don’t think after he explained it. I don’t think it helped much back then, but now I understand, that’s just the maturation of of of leadership become an ordered in having the ability to to recognize things. I was very front sight focused on war. At the time on it, he said: hey, listen, no one’s doubting, guy,

00:25:47

Speaker

update your copy on about gilbert brought, say whatsoever. In fact, a huge actually take this as a compliment that you’re going to go have an exponential effect on the community good skills, my training, the next generation of officers, he’s like a few concrete. You know ten more competent leaders

00:26:08

Speaker

go on to create five, more competent leaders who, in those five to on to create five, more that’s an exponential effect and again it took me a while to comprehend that, like years after I was in that do it, but when I was training these young offenses as well, there were some air force special operations. Soldiers at they said

00:26:29

Speaker

officers up their motivation, just completely consume me. I they were like sponges and I loved the bill gates of all my tours in the military. That was one of the most rewarding because yeah, it’s great anyone go to a battlefield doctor. Has you

00:26:48

Speaker

some level of capacity and b troops to close with and destroy the enemy that it’s gonna happen, one way or the other, but for a leader to leave impact on the next generation is selling us out always achieved. So I appreciate that leadership down driving slave time

00:27:08

Speaker

like to go back in time that it took ten years for say gay, but itunes,

00:27:14

Speaker

it a shot. You know what you think about seriously,

00:27:18

Speaker

if I’m an outsider

00:27:20

Speaker

and I’m thinking

00:27:22

Speaker

in special operations in the us military loot, the mission that they’re given who do. I want selecting and training those leaders. I want somebody like mike,

00:27:32

Speaker

because individuals don’t win teams win and it’s one of the things that we talk about this book and it is a hard concept to get across. But it’s a critical concept in in you know like I give mike a ton of credit, because this was a party hammered home in the book which is you’ve got to have the discipline you have got

00:27:52

Speaker

got to have the foresight to say. I need to pull my best people off to select what’s going to drive this company forward. So if I’m sitting here and I’m a civilian and I’m thinking okay, who do I want to lead our special operations? Who do I want to lead our soldiers, our airmen or marines,

00:28:11

Speaker

our sailors? I’m ticket got be. I better, have a mike the companies. Don’t think that way, and that’s one of the things that we were trying to change with the spoke with that mindset of how do you pull those people that are absolute rock stars in their field and get that next generation? That’s gonna. Take your company in innovation, in sales in customer service,

00:28:31

Speaker

everything that you’re doing forward it’s it.

00:28:34

Speaker

It seems like a very difficult concept and mike it be like spells out. It was even very difficult for him, but it absolutely has an exponential effect. Exactly like you said, I got really goes into. The time is peace as well jeff, sort of benefits and cop got you incentivize creators to pull in a gesture, your drink, your your sales

00:28:55

Speaker

es all star out it to go. Select the next ten sales reps is, you know, you’ve gotta incentivize did did did did do could be at the heart into that effort and understand why it’s impactful organization,

00:29:09

Speaker

though, with that what your, what wonder, some of the best incentives out there cause the sales guy no doubt would have a hard time accepting that role, because often sales guys a commission based right in ahmedabad, crushed and snails are making coin my bank hand over fist. You take me off and I gonna go yeah. No, I totally get that they’re totally coin

00:29:29

Speaker

operated a. I absolutely get that and but you know

00:29:35

Speaker

look it doesn’t take it’s not a brain surgeon that requires you to sit down and say how do we design a compensation programs that incentivize is your top sales guy to come off the line for six months and a rotation and think about it? Look even your best sales person for your major companies. If you really look at

00:29:55

Speaker

the bottom line, if you look at the piano, it’s a rounding error,

00:29:59

Speaker

but what you need to be thinking about if you’re, that seo over that ceo? Is you pull that sales guy off and they create five of your million dollar sales winners? You’ve gone from one guy, doing one million to five million.

00:30:16

Speaker

You know I look at. We give you all kinds, a logical reasons, but if you get dandruff of our revenue number look at it. This is what we said. Basically, you take mike, and you put him in front of instance, you’re creating ten twenty thirty very combat, effective leaders. You take one or two steals

00:30:36

Speaker

you’re, making five ten fifteen more effective sales, people driving your revenue and if you can’t figure out the incentive is how to compensate that person seriously. Gimme a call all do it for you. Frankly, it’s not that hard that I don’t mean to be so crass, but it’s truly not that hard,

00:30:57

Speaker

so even a top seed person who’s written organization, if they’re driven by money,

00:31:04

Speaker

if the us their sole focus. Third, the if they’re gonna jump ship in order of the gains a more lucrative ah accomplish packaging from so you know one in the long run that person might have brought short term success to organization, but if they just up and leave you gotta causes ripples in india

00:31:24

Speaker

max I rather slap somebody who’s slightly less cables, salesperson those high in gaming, terri, hi and loyalty

00:31:34

Speaker

knew somebody who who’s a team player. How many salespeople- and I know really we’re just picking on sales people today

00:31:41

Speaker

admit you’re like yeah, hey got person’s is the top salesperson for his organization, but they’re real a whole album. I bought it during lunch and nurses in sales. I wouldn’t give even look at the album sales. Will residents only go over? Eighty percent of all ceos came from a sales background. Yes, it’s brass taxes. Sales are like this

00:32:00

Speaker

seals of india or organization they’re reading from the other stood the front,

00:32:06

Speaker

but ultimately your compensation for regardless of role. So let’s go winter. Sales could be a good read here. It could be a marketing rep. It could be a human resources person. Your competition kafka compensation benefits package has to be the ballpark. It’s gonna be competitive within the industry. Relatives would pass that ultimately, what people want

00:32:27

Speaker

they want to be part of a winning team in a winning team that doesn’t write a you can still win, but if you do on ethically, if your your new name still have a toxic organization, they want a winning organization with great leadership, you cannot substitute great leadership. My first job out of notary was a great compensate

00:32:46

Speaker

the package, but the leadership was awful and I couldn’t get out there soon enough, and I actually took a major risk to remove tat tat done from that environment, so people what they want, a winning organization, they rate leadership, they want ownership over their lives and you want them to take ownership by giving them ownership want them to take ownership,

00:33:07

Speaker

the roles and responsibilities at their level wherever it is within organization, they also want autonomy over their lives and, lastly, they want growth opportunities. They want to understand was the trajectory. If I work hard, what is the trajectory for? Not only me, but ultimately, my family,

00:33:24

Speaker

so what I’m here for you? If we have the a players anyway, and even if they are salesperson true

00:33:34

Speaker

and you walk in any oh hey, I need you to come on in off the call line and go in the recruiting, hunt and hunt down down five, ten, whatever. If they’re, not a type they’re gonna be like hell, yeah, let’s go because their area have that mentality. Anyway, writing in one of their already in their heads based, they are iraqi

00:33:54

Speaker

eyes, the benefit that’s gonna, bring to their organization in the thing go ahead and fill their team with eight hypes, you, a players that are going broke, crushed their sales, the nerd, a leader or manager. Whatever of that sales team, that is ever a elevating the whole crew with them. Yeah it comes down to

00:34:14

Speaker

vienna mike and I talked about it. It was, I think, a it of the very front. End of the book is having that talent mindset. The only true competitive advantage that you can hope to achieve and maintain is your people. It’s exactly what you talked about was having that mindset, that a player that understands that people make the difference and that’s everything,

00:34:34

Speaker

and if you have the right mindset, he can accomplish anything. You a players, go back to two point. Eight players understand when they’re looking for people to join their team. They understand one quote: an actor should say this: one bible, verse and don’t fake on other overly religious person on monday, at a bad, a roman catholic, and I

00:34:54

Speaker

I’ve been to church in a while I’ll, probably recall, ah

00:34:59

Speaker

but prob proverbs, twenty seven. Seventy iron sharpens iron, so one man short was another. When we’re looking at our tv iphone watch, even though we may be hot hiring, a young college graduate whose twenty one or twenty two georgia drastic results: wife, carlita car is this person capable of giving me

00:35:19

Speaker

run for my money or they could elevate me or even if it’s not through industry knowledge. Is it because they bring so much energy to the team that you wanna make me drive up, though I don’t care if this person, you end up, overtaking me five years down the line, because that means all in one of those still own company, ah

00:35:40

Speaker

container to a new level just about where that’s fine and I’ll be your still part of wanting to honesty from here

00:35:47

Speaker

a falling position. Is it

00:35:52

Speaker

awesome, love it so from the slowly wind down here do got another new, basically the because I’m sure between two you guys have tickets for at least ten to twelve minutes.

00:36:04

Speaker

So let’s answer the exact after listening to this show right now underway. Damn you know what we are hiring just for skill.

00:36:14

Speaker

We haven’t been looking at town. We haven’t been looking at these attributed. Not these guys are on to something as don’t know, these last two guys actually earn some things. I’ve read that book cover to cover and recommend it highly.

00:36:28

Speaker

So, what’s the path now how? How does a leader and executive a business owner go and suddenly go from doing hiring in a skills oriented fashion? To now having to foot the switching, only not let’s go in this town fashion that you two are recommending

00:36:48

Speaker

patients. It’s gonna require a lot patience and resiliency. I adored from rounder the year I right, edo, hey rome, wasn’t built over one night this. This takes time. This takes time to to change your basic, go ultra college bats. That’s what you’re doing when when you can

00:37:07

Speaker

mitt to hiring for character trait for skill, your very much going through or organizational cultural, ah shit.

00:37:16

Speaker

Now one is sort of having composition of again the town profiles for position. I wouldn’t even engage in hiring truthfully. If we don’t georgian, I don’t understand the leadership foundation in the cultural foundation organization. If you haven’t defined at first,

00:37:37

Speaker

the nats were, you may want to start. Locking will just use some flowery words grow them up on the wall. So that’s our company’s core values, but are they are a leader within your organization exhibiting those behaviors in leadership is not position. Leadership is ultimately, you said hairs and whether you execute those behaviors now are we

00:37:56

Speaker

performing those behaviors on a day to day basis. What really matters, and then reverse engineering it from there

00:38:05

Speaker

and for me I would be remiss and I will be thrown in the surf and get cold wet and sandy. If I don’t bring this up first thing that leader that ceo, that executive is the mindset switch. You treat your human capital with the same focus, rigor and discipline

00:38:25

Speaker

as you do your financial capital full stop. You do that,

00:38:30

Speaker

that’s where it starts. That’s where you get in to looking at what does success look like and- and I will go into the times with all suffer death by powerpoint and all of that. But when you start looking at talent, is your true competitive advantage and that’s your mindset. That’s the place to start

00:38:50

Speaker

then from there you can work in iterate your way, the bean just dominating in your space with george will be reverse

00:38:59

Speaker

yeah. Well, I get up because it gave you ultimately george and I talked about this thing called the town mindset yeah the foundation, or will we

00:39:09

Speaker

that people not systems, not processes that people are the most strategic imperative engaging in a jfk a special operations up? Seeing this, that is why that’s the second my phone rung. Ah, this is it. This is why special operations take so long to evaluate their people.

00:39:30

Speaker

That’s why? Because they want to make sure that every hire has the highest probability of being a contributing member to move the organization for now.

00:39:40

Speaker

If you look at special operations and everything that’s written their cultural foundation, other five axioms, it all revolves around people, people of the most important asset people over hardware- you tally, cannot be created in the wake of an emergency. Everything revolves around people, weather’s, good organizations that do that

00:40:00

Speaker

that are close to the that level. The operating the business will ah netflix foundation. When you look at netflix culture deck I loved to- and I think once about love it, it helps or you take me, they believe it and they’re trying to limit in there a massive organization, but they want rockstars, as it doesn’t contradict rocks

00:40:20

Speaker

stores in every position. If they identify someone who’s, not a rock star you, regardless leveled organization, they’re gonna, get that person out there did you do it in a very professional manner, because actually they’re saying that person up for success to go find an organization where they will thrive on so that the town mindset is is powerful.

00:40:41

Speaker

That foundational thing I discussed about people are the greatest strategic imperative you can ever hope to achieve. George just set for all ceos. Listening to this are all leaders, a georgia, let you say the quote again:

00:40:55

Speaker

peter ensued with with being one hundred percent cary with yourself, then the good dude you’re headed in the right direction, but if you can also maybe yeah that were were not there, then you, you gonna, tell probably used george to quote one more time for what the literature you have to treat your financial capital with the same guy,

00:41:14

Speaker

trigger discipline and focus as you do, your financial capital, your judgment, you have treat your human capital human capital, my apologies!

00:41:22

Speaker

So what? If I’ll get your dog out with your sorcery you’re serious about your people? Is you? Are your your your capital, your financial capital, then actually believe in this town mindset

00:41:37

Speaker

yeah as three military guys here we all know, then how important are people are right that there everything and spinsters leaders there a reason why we lead went without are people wait a minute, we’re know him or were not amateurs, and you want to be leading the past because it makes your life so much easier, so yeah, I love,

00:41:56

Speaker

love the whole ideology behind the book. I loved it from cover to cover against. It was actually amazing to go through one of the one of the top ones. I’ve read thus far from doing this. Gagan getting talked to guys, like yourselves, just makes this so much fun and rewarding,

00:42:15

Speaker

because now I get through not only get a front row seat to an education in advance leadership,

00:42:23

Speaker

but I gotta make connections with yourselves but most importantly, help you know just like we talked about not a person and a player, and now I’m helping develop more leaders there. So thank you for your walnuts before lent out. I got a couple of questions for yeah. One asked all the guess here moving for leadership, and that is the current new mixer

00:42:43

Speaker

early endorsement out. What makes a great leader you can fight over who goes first,

00:42:49

Speaker

it’s a it’s mike am I I actually eat out. One of the great things in an adult can answer the question why the privileges of working with mike is it you’re, always learning something so letting him go first. A I mean I am always. Learning is a great thing about the two of us working together is, is it’s just bull were trying to get better all the time

00:43:09

Speaker

mike you get first, because I’m always anxious to hear it in a that guy. Just to history,

00:43:19

Speaker

george, and I we have our disagreements- leap get done. I don’t want people thinking, they know those guys, you jive all the time know the kind of christ sake and he decides to say as wanna light without any resources at the truck or not.

00:43:35

Speaker

We both have the same intent of we want the source to watch to be absolutely powerful. We want to disrupt- or I should say I, what real human resources ah loosely. So

00:43:51

Speaker

here here’s here’s how to find the ultimate level of leadership in I’m in many ways. Still in this region actual you know, you’ve become a graveyard when people follow you for who you are and what you represent,

00:44:05

Speaker

and that is hard to achieve

00:44:07

Speaker

requires a high degree of selflessness

00:44:11

Speaker

putting the team above you now, there’s a lot of great leaders out there. People that work forum will will will move heaven and earth to accomplish whatever goals, but are out of balance in other areas of life, maybe because they were so fixated on their team, the business that their family life degraded, so good leadership.

00:44:32

Speaker

No one has this figured out. Real leadership is a vague art that requires constant reassessment. It changes as you change in different phases of your life. So if we talk about leadership, george and ira, the pursuit of of caustic knowledge running leadership, not an excuse

00:44:52

Speaker

it and we fall short every day. It will fall short every single day, but will learn will get better if you don’t georges in the grave which strongly about five years from now,

00:45:03

Speaker

and for me

00:45:06

Speaker

you know it’s a lesson. I didn’t learn early enough in my military career and I came a little bit later and it’s reinforced that mike and I and this team that we built the if over watch working together, humility

00:45:19

Speaker

and mike has a phrase, and I plagiarized it is much as I possibly can and will continue to, which is the best idea wins is that in the pursuit of us getting better about leadership, how we wrote the book, how we do things here eightieth over? What shall we do things? Is that it’s about success and, if you’re, a leader that humility to

00:45:38

Speaker

except the input and a better idea where to have somebody shoot holes in your idea to make it stronger and better is, is absolutely one of the things that leadership that I really wish. I’d learned a lot earlier, ah and butthead, so grateful that I have at this point in my career

00:45:58

Speaker

love above chance level. Both men expect nothing, but amazing and rockstar answers me. Both I final thing is we be in agony, follow you shameless plugs all round. It’s all the you guys right now

00:46:12

Speaker

have at it read. The book can be found on the town work, how special operations missions where retire anywhere books are sold. I know that usually means for most people to go to games on in order with one day service, so you can buy the book on our names on a factor to get hit. Bestseller of ten amazon are attacked

00:46:33

Speaker

for george, and I this is what we do. Some baby

00:46:36

Speaker

ask you. Where start call us mean this is this? Is barbara county buys wreath wreath other watch? We also do executive search. I mean were in the space that we wrote a book about a day to day in the trenches by it, but to watch george tom lowe car in wall at calling one step into a company who has the ability to say hey, we need

00:46:56

Speaker

help and work with him over the course of a few weeks to a degree world class. I taught I was using raw program state national. There is nothing more rewarding trust, not, and you can find us at yep and watches the main becoming a daddy, daddy, daddy, dot e f over watch darker

00:47:15

Speaker

during an idle on linkedin. Please could I could like, and I we yeah

00:47:21

Speaker

in one of the things that we talked about it. Our first breakfast is we both nerd out on talent, so if you’re into talent by all means connect with us on linkedin, were happy to make those connections and spread the good work

00:47:32

Speaker

awesome for losers, always is too breezy it on go to meeting for lucia dot, com or plus one six five one. Sixty five links are in the shadows, gentlemen. This been amazing. I thoroughly enjoyed this conversation. I enjoyed reading the book. Ah and most morally, I enjoyed getting a few digs everybody dreams watching who’s

00:47:52

Speaker

indus who’s into space, though ah but there’s. I think I think in time at your at your busy schedules and if you visit ireland, so thanks for coming out thanks. I appreciate it. Man

00:48:06

Speaker

right result stop streaming.

 


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